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Most people think of the “mentally disordered” as a delusional lot, holding bizarre and irrational ideas about themselves and the world around them. Isn’t a mental disorder, after all, an impairment or a distortion in thought or perception? This is what we tend to think, and for most of modern psychology’s history, the experts have agreed; realistic perceptions have been considered essential to good mental health. More recently, however, research has arisen that challenges this common-sense notion.
In 1988, psychologists Shelly Taylor and Jonathon Brown published an article making the somewhat disturbing claim that positive self-deception is a normal and beneficial part of most people’s everyday outlook. They suggested that average people hold cognitive biases in three key areas: a) viewing themselves in unrealistically positive terms; b) believing they have more control over their environment than they actually do; and c) holding views about the future that are more positive than the evidence can justify. The typical person, it seems, depends on these happy delusions for the self-esteem needed to function through a normal day. It’s when the fantasies start to unravel that problems arise.
Consider eating disorders, for instance. It’s generally been believed that an unrealistically negative body image is an important factor in the self-abuse that characterizes anorexia and bulimia. A 2006 study at the University of Maastricht in the Netherlands, however, came to a very different conclusion. Here, groups of normal and eating disordered women were asked to rate the attractiveness of their own bodies. They were then photographed from the neck down, and panels of volunteers were brought in to view the photos and rate the women’s appearances objectively. The normal women, as it turned out, evaluated themselves much more positively than the panels did, while the self-ratings of the eating disordered women were in close agreement with the objective ratings. The eating disordered subjects, in other words, had a more realistic body image than the normal women. However, it is important to note that the study was based upon the broad concept of “attractiveness” rather than body weight specifically—while the eating disordered women may have rated themselves poorly because they felt “fat,” their weight was a controlled variable and not the basis of the volunteers’ assessments.
Studies into clinical depression have yielded similar findings, leading to the development of an intriguing, but still controversial, concept known as depressive realism. This theory puts forward the notion that depressed individuals actually have more realistic perceptions of their own image, importance, and abilities than the average person. While it’s still generally accepted that depressed people can be negatively biased in their interpretation of events and information, depressive realism suggests that they are often merely responding rationally to realities that the average person cheerfully denies.
Those with paranoid disorders can sometimes possess a certain unusual insight as well. It has often been asserted that within every delusional system, there exists a core of truth—and in their pursuit of imagined conspiracies against them, these individuals often show an exceptionally keen eye for the real thing. People who interact with them may be taken aback as they find themselves accused of harboring some negative opinion of the person which, secretly, they actually do hold. Complicating the issue, of course, is the fact that if the supposed aversion didn’t exist before, it likely does after such an unpleasant encounter.
As one might imagine, these issues present some problems when it comes to treatment. How does one convince a depressed person that “everything is all right” when her life really does suck? How does one convince an obsessive-compulsive patient to stop religiously washing his hands when the truth of what gets left behind after “normal” washing should be enough to make any sane person cringe? These problems put therapists in the curious position of teaching patients to develop irrational patterns of thinking—patterns that help them view the world as a rosier place than it really is. Counterintuitive as it sounds, it’s justified because what defines a mental disorder is not unreasonable or illogical thought, but abnormal behaviour that causes significant distress and impairs normal functioning in society. Treatment is about restoring a person to that level of normal functioning and satisfaction, even if it means building cognitions that aren’t precisely “rational” or “realistic.”
It’s a disconcerting concept. It’s certainly easier to think of the mentally disordered as lunatics running about with bizarre, inexplicable beliefs than to imagine them coping with a piece of reality that a “normal” person can’t handle. The notion that we routinely hide from the truth about ourselves and our world is not an appealing one, though it may help to explain the human tendency to ostracize the abnormal. Perhaps the reason we are so eager to reject any departure from this fiction we call “normality” is because we have grown dependent on our comfortable delusions; without them, there is nothing to insulate us from the harsh cold of reality.
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FIRST!!!
FIRST??? Oh, Wow. Now I have a much inflated impression of myself that will help me get through another day.
Dang, 2nd. Head in the oven time. Sigh.
Very interesting! Consciousness itself is a subjective phenomenon, so we might expect that self-deception is part of the motivational process. Exactly what does it take to get up out of bed in the morning? Does everyone actually accomplish the things that they expect to every day? No, but they continue to be motivated on the same premises day after day.
It’s likewise possible for people to hold unrealistically negative perceptions of various subjective judgements. But this is less common because it’s a demotivator instead of motivating factor in someone’s life. The positive self-deception is more common because, ironically, it’s good for you. It leads you to exert more strenous efforts because you deceive yourself into thinking that your efforts have more effect than they actually do.
As a survival trait, positive self-deception gets things done, and that’s why everybody does it.
A fascinating article!
It’s interesting to consider how the ideas in this article interact with those in the article about Hyperbolic Discounting…which should be linked to in the related articles, in my opinion. According to the “HD” article, people are too optimistic, not giving enough thought to the long-term negative consequences of their actions, be it smoking, unhealthy eating, etc. That’s one side of the spectrum. On the other side, an overly realistic view tends to make one depressed. How bizarre!
Alcoholics Anonymous has long taught us that the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Maybe this only applies to the problems we can influence. We can decide whether or not to go on a drinking binge or to live a sober life. However, there are many things we cannot change about our circumstances. In these things, it seems that we must cling to hope, however unlikely that hope is. If we do not, despair is right around the corner.
But do we really need to believe in a lie in order to stay sane? Hope does not need to be unrealistic. AA encourages its attendees to look to a higher power for help overcoming their addiction. Many people believe that this is a fantasy, and a dangerous one at that. However, I know that I have a Father who has control over the circumstances where I am powerless. Time and time again, he has proven to me that I can rely on him and things will turn out okay. Even when life turns sour or—more than that—my peaceful existence turns into a living nightmare, I know I can trust him and things will always work out for the good of those who love him. The longer I know him and the more I trust him, the more peace, happiness, and hope I experience. It is a hope that no one can take away.
Some people are blind optimists, believing that everything is okay when it is not. It will make their life more pleasant, but trouble will inevitably come. At that time, an illusory hope will help them in only the most superficial ways. My hope is in my Father, and his is the origin of all life and all true hope. He is my wellspring of hope, and this well runs deep!
Coherent put it very coherently. Realistically, life is more hopeless and out of our control than we are comfortable with accepting. Positive self-deception, though false, motivates us to at least try. Then maybe with a little luck one of us will accomplish something.
DI article, Christopher Putnam, nicely done. Interesting and thought provoking. I think I will stick with my positive self delusion. Although, when it comes to my body image, I think I fall more in the depressive realism catagory. People for the most part are attracted to people who are positive and upbeat. Being around them tends to make other people feel good and full of positive energy. Isn’t it possible, that people who are depressively real, so to speak, are ostracized because they are negative and thus perceived as energy draining. Not that I’m saying this is good behavior, it’s just the way it is.
Deep down, I believe most people just need a really comfortable pair of shoes and plenty of fiber and they will be right as rain.
Congratualtions Christopher nice article.
Burning makes a good point, when we can control the problem it is better to admit it is there.
It might sound arrogant but I like to think I can handle the reality and try and look at things without those three happy delusions. It is bad luck for those who cant face it but still see it.
DI article, nice work!
Nietzsche wrote over 100 years ago that untruth, injustice and illogic (under the cover of truth, justice and logic) were the qualities that allowed the human race to survive.
Here’s to delusion!
Hey, this new guy’s pretty good.
Well done! :-)
As a survival trait, positive self-deception gets things done, and that’s why everybody does it.”
I agree with your observations, Coherent. I belive I am a “realist” yet that is not generally accepted as much as the “optimist” positive perception. Recently I was accused of being “negative” when someone asked about the weather for the weekend and I replied “bleak.” “Stop being so negative!” was the response. “Negative?” I replied. “I just saw the weather report and it said 70% chance of rain.” Now, I would rather have nice ,rain free weekend, but since when is stating the most likely a “negative?! Not what they wanted to hear!
Anyway, great article! And that is a “realistic” answer!
But it is hard to measure what a person “thinks” about himself or herself or a situation, because even that will change from time to time. Part of me is happy with myself. Part is depressed. If you ask me and I don’t feel threatened or lonely at the time, I will be far more positive than if you get me at ten o’clock at night, for example, or when my arthritis has kicked in. As an ADD person, I can even think a LOT of things at the same time, and as we talk you will see that I can take several sides of an argument.
Personally, I think reality itself is so multi-faceted that we can’t confine it like this. It is like the story of nine blind men and an elephant. One described him as a big tough fan (the ear), another a rope (the tail), another a smooth pointy thing (the tusk), one a wall (the side), one a snake (the trunk) and another a tree trunk (the leg). Don’t ask me the other three, you get the idea.
Not only do we all see reality differently, and beauty differently, and right and wrong and good and bad, but our own perception of these will vary from time to time. Still, we are all looking at the same elephant.
Personally, I think when we die, we get to see the whole elephant and be amazed and embarrassed that we hadn’t figured it out better!
I LOVE the head in the sand picture.
It looks to me like religion is another facet of positive self-deception. When life sucks you can still maintain a positive outlook as long as you have an imaginary friend who has the power to make everything all better if you just believe hard enough.
Great article. I’d be interested to see how self perception and self confidence tie in. For instance, I’m well aware of my own faults, I’m selfish and self absorbed, I’m lazy, I frequently don’t think things through properly before doing them, I’m terrified of conflict and will do anything to avoid it, and I’m quite needy when it comes to seeking validation and approval from my peers. Also, I’m underweight and look like a scarecrow in any pictures I’ve seen of myself (an image which is strangely different from what I see in the mirror). That said, I’m not lacking in self confidence. I understand and accept my flaws as part of what makes me, Me. And I like Me… so is an awareness of shortcomings what is responsible for the depression, or does the depression merely make these molehills seem insurmountable?
Thank you so much for writing this – I had an eating disorder in high school and to this day, looking at pictures of me from back then, I still think I look too big when everyone else says I looked fine. I never understood until now. I guess one of the best ways of dealing with problems is pretending they don’t exist in the first place.
ballaerina, I bet the “spotlight effect” (the tendency to believe that others are scrutinizing one’s behavior and appearance far more than they actually are) was a lot of it; to everyone else you probably DID look just fine. Since we’re all so used to our own appearances, we see flaws where others just see another image of us. Our own self-perceived problems are often easily overlooked, disregarded and/or forgotten by anyone else.
Personally, I think that reconditioning a depressively realistic individual is in a way unethical in that it perpetuates delusion. Oh well, I suppose it’d be their fault if they chose to undergo such conditioning.
BarryW, what worries me more is that someday atheism and agnosticism could be considered “abnormal behaviour that causes significant distress and impairs normal functioning in society” and treated by “building cognitions that aren’t precisely “rational” or “realistic.”
My name is Dr. Evil…and I’m a DI addict…it has been 2 hours since my last visit to this site
“Take the life-lie away from the average man and you take away his life.”
— Henrik Ibsen (The Wild Duck)
Thank you Christopher for this article. This is almost exactly how I feel !! I have suffered from clinical depression for nearly 10 years and am now stabilised (more or less) by antidepressants. But for years and years I was accused of being negative, of always seeing the bad things. The trouble was that in many cases I would be proved right. I could see what was going to happen, but people all around me seemed to be perfectly happy and literally unable to perceive what to me was as clear as day.
When I was in the depths of my last episode it was as if the veil protecting me from harsh reality had been stripped away. Life was futile, work was completely pointless, etc etc. The truth is that many many people are working at jobs they hate, but somehow we get through it day after day. After treatment, I was able to get back to ‘normality’, and in fact I have changed work, moved to a different country – all in order to achieve a liveable life…
A question for ninyule and others who have experienced similar conditions: does knowing and comprehending your state of mind actually help you deal with the “problem”? Is it possible to do some sort of a mental exercise to change your perception of reality?
And another one:
How do antidepressants alter these cognitive states? Does “My job is pointless” become “My job is pointless but I don’t really mind that”, or rather: “My job is important and interesting”?
Great article Christopher. Loved the nod to Douglas Adams ‘Hitchhickers Guide to the Galaxy’ in the title.
I don’t carewhat any of you think! I’m still the King!
It’s good to see some studies that support what I’ve been saying.
One way that I use to escape depression without drugs is by amusing myself through writing random thoughts, most of which deal with a depressed view of life. (Of course, I call it a realistic view of life, especially in regard to any thoughts that I have for the future.) I began calling them “Lines, by J.L.” Here are just a few of the many that I’ve written:
1. Just because I’m old, bitter, and cynical, that doesn’t mean I’m wrong.
2. Hope is the last refuge of the defeated.
3. I can trust those who hate me because I know that they are out to get me. It’s the people who say they’re my friends I worry about.
4. I’m not depressed; I’m merely acutely aware of reality.
This last one is by the most prolific author of the ages: Anonymous. “The ability to see clearly is often called cynicism by those who haven’t got it.”
Kudos to Mr. Putnam for his superbly clear, tight thinking and writing! If he had been a student in one of my advanced composition/philosophy classes, I would have given him an “A” on the spot and then told him not to bother coming to class for the remainder of the quarter.
I know you wrote this because you are all against me.
Good job Mr. Putnam. This again is truly Damned Interesting.
“O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!”
Ode to a louse – Robert Burns
I just read a comic strip that applies perfectly to Mr. Putnam’s article.
Go to http://www.peanuts.com, and look at the strip for Fri 15 June 07.
Excellent first attempt, Christopher! I did have to read the article a couple of times to understand it fully, but the subject is quite complicated, to be fair, and I’m no Einstein.
I guess this has been part of every society for as long as humans have existed: an unwritten definition of what constitutes normalcy; and any serious deviation from this standard constituted lunacy, anti-social behaviour, blaphemy, etc etc.
Reminds me of an old Arab tale about a kingdom stricken by an unknown disease that turns people crazy. It quickly spreads throughout the population and the king, in a desperate attempt to save the only heir to his throne, orders his son to be locked away in a distant castle for a year. By the time the year is over, every person in the kingdom had gone mad, including the king. And when the prince came out of his confinement, they would laugh at his ideas and call him crazy! The very definition of normalcy had been altered and in the end, it was the prince who was mad.
“To see ourselves as others see us is fatal; our lies keep us alive.”
“Of all the lies I’ve told, I like the ones I’ve told myself the best.”
“How does one convince a depressed person that “everything is all right” when her life really does suck?”
Even worse, how do you convince a depressed person their life really does suck when they think everything is ok?
How many times growing up did you hear the phrase “You can be anything you want to be”, or “you can do anything you want to”? It’s hardly surprising that we have inflated views of ourselves and I wonder is it a modern psychological development, or has it always been a crutch to shoulder our ever developing ego?
As a serious distance runner, I’m very critical about my weight and it bothers me when I’m carrying extra pounds. I chastise myself if I get suckered into a nights drinking or if I miss a run. Despite this I would consider myself extremely happy, and I have ambitions in athletics far beyond my abilities, as do most sportspeople I would imagine. I mention this because for many of my friends in athletics (myself included), there is a combination of brutally honest self image, which in turn perpetuates the possibility for a healthy positive outlook on future performance. Without looking at ourselves objectively for training purposes, we could never harbour desires beyond reality.
Perhaps I’m looking at this from the wrong point of view, but certainly the concepts raised in the article are reflective of thoughts and observations I’ve made in the past!
DI!
leob said: …someday atheism and agnosticism could be considered “abnormal behaviour that causes significant distress and impairs normal functioning in society” and treated by “building cognitions that aren’t precisely “rational” or “realistic.””
loeb, as long as we’re going down a slippery slope…
It seems that many in today’s society are “too well adjusted” – don’t save any money for a rainy day, sit around and watch tv, smoke, drink, and eat to excess. They tell themselves “I’m doing just fine thank you very much”. And, generally, (American) society agrees. And that is considered “normal”.
But those who eat/drink in moderation, work with some passion, and experience life by traveling, hiking, camping, surfing, skiing, mountain biking, kayaking, or a thousand other active pursuits – they are labeled “extreme”.
Ankle & wrist sprains in these sports are common, and generally an accepted risk. But in a society where nearly any minor injury is explored for litigious potential, how long is it before so-called “extreme sports” are considered “abnormal behaviour that causes significant distress and impairs normal functioning in society”
BTW, nice work Christopher – you got this long time reader to come out of the woodwork and make a first post.
Some people are blind optimists, believing that everything is okay when it is not. It will make their life more pleasant, but trouble will inevitably come.
Not necessarily. If tomorrow they get run over by a ten ton truck they will have lived their life in ignorant bliss. They never had to face reality.
My concern with this thinking is the circuitous logic involved, with the addition of outside forces- and I do not see that addressed in the article. (Although I see it mentioned in the responses by burning and mohdowais among others.) How “me” thinks about “me” is a cycle that, yes is effected by “me” and everything else that affects me, but it includes dynamics that are both internal AND external. I believe the premise that (my belief that) my reality is a comfortable delusion is too heavily weighted on what (as Chris said) are negative viewpoints. Who is to say what is or isn’t negative. Rain is good and beneficial for our crops (in moderation of course), just not for our vacation plans – unless we’re going to the Amazon and want to experience the rain forest in all it’s glory. I believe what is a closer look at the truth is that we’re more comfortable with those that make us feel good, such as those that are either more “positive and upbeat” as expressed by Spike, or those that express any negatives they feel in exaggerations and witticisms meant to make us laugh – which also makes us feel good, such as the “Lines, by J.L.” written by Jarvisloop (very witty, thanks, – and BTW- a great way to interject your work). Either way, both are outside influences that effect our reality. Like Pie ;-)
Treatment is about restoring a person to that level of normal functioning and satisfaction, even if it means building cognitions that aren’t precisely “rational” or “realistic.”
From a utilitarian perspective having congitions that provide normal (or above normal) level of functioning is indeed very “rational.”
This article assumes that there is a “way things really are” and a “way we think things are.” It assumes those are stationary, and they can agree/disagree/overlap/etc. This assumption is fundamentally flawed as it requires absolute objective reality.
In other words, our cognitions can and do change the reality.
This is still a fun article though.
Spike said: “DI article, Christopher Putnam, nicely done…
..Deep down, I believe most people just need a really comfortable pair of shoes and plenty of fiber and they will be right as rain.”
Spike has is nailed down. Although somewhat Gumpish this thought process can be extremely helpful. During an exceptionally nasty year filled with fear and depression I learned to find value and enjoyment in many of life’s little gifts. Not so much on the fiber, but things like a clear blue sky, birds tweeting, a funny story or close examination of an odd texture all paid huge dividends in altering the perception of reality and counteracting negative states.
When a person becomes to focused on one negative aspect of their life such as weight or poverty, it can become consuming to the point of being debilitating. Taking a step back to appreciate even the smallest of things can provide a needed respite and with enough frequency can help turn things around.
Every morning I make it a point to give my undivided attention to what the birds are doing and I start my day with a smile.
“You mean I’m gonna STAY this color?”
-Navin R. Johnson
Very interesting article.
I liked the bit about the bulima/anorexia body image test. The politically correct philosophy (as espoused mostly in soap operas and chat shows) is that any person who chooses to follow an unusual eating regime, or chooses to have plastic surgery, is suffering from a mental disorder and simply can’t see how beautiful they are. But what if the person really is fat and/or ugly? Is it not a reasonable thing in our society to want to change that, even it means taking extreme measures? Like it or not, society puts a high premium on bodily beauty, and it seems to me that the desire to be physically attractive is just as rational as the desire to be intelligent, fit, and wealthy.
I thought this was really interesting. I just have one thing to say in response to depression. If you think everything will go wrong it inevitably will (self-reinforcing), whereas with hope and optimism you have more of a possiblity of things turning out well. Speaking from personal experience when I have thought positively it has usually turned out better, also the ability to cope with things, seeing the flip side of the coin (ie the bright side).
bbeoj, you may be right, but the simplest way to deal with “extreme” sports is to stop insuring people practicing them. There is no need for a treatment or building of cognitions contrary to reality.
So usually people who are able to be happy all the time can only do so because they ignore the truth of how bad life can be at times. The key word being ignore. People DO know the reality of the world somewhere in the back of their minds; some of us just block it out. That intentional self delusion to aviod the blatantly obvious can come off as ignorant, spawning “Ignorance is bliss” as a common saying everyone is familiar with. So people who view the world realistically are negative and depressed, where as people who delude themselves to make life bearable are stupid. So where is there room for people who are just genuinely happy and the people who have it good and are just depressed anyway? What about people who seek knowledge; the ability to access situations and catagorize human behavior, is it just a means of elevating oneself to a class of higher thingking individuals?
Happiness and Wisdom are two different things, and are probably mutually exclusive.
Xoebe said: “Happiness and Wisdom are two different things, and are probably mutually exclusive.”
Nonsensical statement.
Wisdom doesn’t equal intelligence or total awareness.
Very nice job on the article. Sorry I don’t have two cents to add about it. I do like the head in the sand picture. I think someone should pull his finger so he can come back up for air. Haha. Well I guess I that answered myself portrait of reality. Cheer up, it’ll all be over soon.
What is the worst thing that can happen in your life?
When asked to a class of high schoolers, they discussed wars, disease, handicaps, financial ruin, etc. and decided that being lonely is the worst thing that can happen to someone and make them the most miserable.
And negative people tend to be pretty lonely.
DI indeed.
However, I was a little confused by this statement.
“People who interact with them may be taken aback as they find themselves accused of harboring some negative opinion of the person which, secretly, they actually do hold. Complicating the issue, of course, is the fact that if the supposed aversion didn’t exist before, it likely does after such an unpleasant encounter.”
So if I don’t secretly hate someone, then I find out that they think I am secretly hating them, do I start secretly hating them?
Religion definitely plays into this. Of course the world, your life, your job…is shit, but believe in (fill in your favorite deity) and it’ll all be ok in the end. Toss in a little afterlife and you’ve got yourself a really good sales pitch.
On secretly hating someone. I read that as the individual being able to read thru your smokescreen even though you may not be aware. Kinda like tells in poker. Great site. Keep up the good work. I’ll drop by every now and then and mingle with the riff-raff.
Enjoy.
debbiebf said: “[Life] is so multi-faceted that we can’t confine it like this. It is like the story of nine blind men and an elephant. One described him as a big tough fan (the ear), another a rope (the tail), another a smooth pointy thing (the tusk), one a wall (the side), one a snake (the trunk) and another a tree trunk (the leg). Don’t ask me the other three, you get the idea.”
A very good analogy, debbiebf. A nice illustrated example of this Indian fable (there were only six blind men, BTW), put into poetic form by John Godfrey Saxe, can be seen here.
Thanks, all. Good to be onboard.
Now… I believe I was promised pie?
Or was that a delusion?
Google the elephant story: I found three men, five men, six men and nine men. There may be more. Six is probably better because nine gets kind of obsessive.
I am a depressive realist.
One day, all of us depressive realist will unite and we will show you all how bad your lives really suck!!! XD just kidding
ChrisW75 said: “so is an awareness of shortcomings what is responsible for the depression, or does the depression merely make these molehills seem insurmountable?”
I’ve recently emerged from a two-year depression that got pretty bad. I was aware of my shortcomings before, but the depression really did make them seem insurmountable. My depression made me believe that everything about me was wrong and that the rest of my life would be a slow descent and there was nothing I could do about it. This is not my normal personality at all. I was always a very positive person, and my optimism had always been the thing that got me through the hard times. Losing that made life extremely difficult to handle.
Of course, that’s just my experience; depression is different for everyone. It can be caused by one thing or many things, or it could have no recognizable cause at all.
Thag said: “When a person becomes to focused on one negative aspect of their life such as weight or poverty, it can become consuming to the point of being debilitating. Taking a step back to appreciate even the smallest of things can provide a needed respite and with enough frequency can help turn things around.”
That might work when you’re only focused on one or two negative aspects of your life, but when you’re so depressed that you develop a negative view of everything in your life it’s hard to appreciate the small things. It’s hard to see the good in anything. Aside from the past couple years, I was always the kind of person who takes joy from small things and who tries to see the bright side of every situation. But depression took away my ability to do that. Being an optimist, I was never able to understand it until it actually happened to me.
I cannot by definition be depressed, because of a solipsistic worldview based upon my own flexible definition of reality; Should I feel “down,” I adjust my reality to suit the new paradigm and those who would impinge upon my thought processes no longer exist. Allow me to sit here and contemplate the tip of mytail, massage my pointed ears, and dream of what YOUR reality may be.
kakun said: “A question for ninyule and others who have experienced similar conditions: does knowing and comprehending your state of mind actually help you deal with the “problem”? Is it possible to do some sort of a mental exercise to change your perception of reality?
And another one:
How do antidepressants alter these cognitive states? Does “My job is pointless” become “My job is pointless but I don’t really mind that”, or rather: “My job is important and interesting”?”
Answer to first question, in my experience, the answer is no. The big therapy these days is Cognitive Behaviour Therapy or CBT, which in crude terms aims to teach your brain to be more positive. Unfortunately in my case there are chemical imbalances going on – I can literally feel the adrenalin bouncing around first thing in the morning – so it doesn’t work for me.
The point for me is that even when I was ‘well’, my friends and work colleagues would always go on about how negative I was. I would always see the worst side of a situation.
Answer to second question: yes, antidepressants act by altering the chemical processes in your brain which then alters your cognitive state. Scientists don’t really know why the magic pills act in the way they do…
What seems to happen in my case is that the imbalance becomes so bad that the ‘self-deception’ is stripped away, and ‘my job is great’ suddenly becomes ‘my job is pointless’. Once the pill has kicked in, it does go back to the ‘norm’.
However, once you have a major depressive episode, in my experience you never fully recover.
So in other words, you’re not crazy, everyone else is?
That was directed at Fuzzynubbins, i just did it too late.
alexeyg said: “Nonsensical statement.”
From my perspective, not nonsensical at all. If anything, it’s one of the truest statements about the state of humankind that I have read. To a degree, it’s analogous to “Ignorance is bliss.” On the other hand, Albert Camus’ “The Myth of Sisyphus” supports your statement.
Emmy said: “I am a depressive realist.
One day, all of us depressive realist will unite and we will show you all how bad your lives really suck!!! XD just kidding”
“The secret to being happy is ignoring the obvious.”
“The unexamined life is not worth living” – Socrates.
“But the examined life will drive you crazy” – J.L.
Is depression the perception that your life sucks? Is depression looking at the way things really are? Should we foster “positive self delusions”? What about unbelief does it cause distress? Does mental illness partly stem from a more realistic view of things?
Burning mentioned AA and his belief in His Father for helping him live and get out of the negative thinking.
here is a common prayer that all the 12 step programs use
God grant me Serenity to accept the things I cannot change
the courage to change the thing I can
and the wisdom to know the difference
From my own personal experience it is not the perception of reality that is at the root of depression or even other degrees of mental distress it is my attitude.
There are many things about myself that do not align with mainstream social norms nor with accepted ideals.
Some of which I do have power to do something about others I do not. Like Popeye the sailor “I am what I am.”
Whether I believe in a “personal God” or not makes no difference to my level of mental distress. There are many true believers who suffer from the same patterns of thoughts that lead to depression.
It is like the alluded to Zaphod in the title of this post when place into The Total Perspective Vortex and came out the only person so doing that suffered no ill effects.
Here I am in all of this universe past and future
positive and negative images
reality and delusion so tangled together it is hard to separate them into discrete parts
ME!
It is not seeing things as they are that is the problem it is stopping there. It is my attitude.
But for years and years I was accused of being negative, of always seeing the bad things. The trouble was that in many cases I would be proved right. I could see what was going to happen, but people all around me seemed to be perfectly happy and literally unable to perceive what to me was as clear as day.
You and me both. :(
This article just confirmed what I had known all along: people really don’t think logically. :/
Alright I enjoy reading DI articles as much as anyone, but in fairness I don’t see where people regularly deceiving themselves happily to go off to work or play in poisonous environs such as painting luminous clock faces or throwing lawn darts in Love Canal backyards, let’s say… is such a great survival trait… and I imagine the folks in those same circumstances who were saying to themselves “this really blows and I look like hell” could give themselves a solid vote of mental confidence and more positive esteem in the longer run, if not actually motivated to correct the environment themselves..
Well done, Christopher Putnam, very enjoyable article and responses.
Someone get this guy a piece of pie! Well done Chris!
Thag, Spike, you guys have a great way of thinking. I think personally I am aware of how much life has a tendency to suck and that nothing is sunshine and roses. However, being aware of that doesn’t make me a pessimist, and I think most people who know me would suggest that I was a very happy person. Being happy and “optimistic” doesn’t mean you don’t know there are more downs than ups, but you have to pick some way of going about life. For those of us who choose to “live life to the fullest”, having a happy disposition helps achieve that.
We’re here, right? May as well make the best of it. And if that makes me delusional, I will gladly walk through this life as nutty as an acorn tree.
Christopher S. Putnam said: “Thanks, all. Good to be onboard.
Now… I believe I was promised pie?
Or was that a delusion?”
Haha! Sorry I’m late on this one! That’s a Damn Interesting theory! Perhaps, many who are not considered mentaly unstable feel the same that people that have issues, and the difference that separates them is the developement of mechanisms to combat the bleak reality of many situations. I used to wash my hands excessively from a fear of germs and such. Eventually I realized that all the bacteria that I fear is always around, yet I’m still alive and feeling fine. (I still wash my hands everytime after using the restroom… for the record). Of course another fine mechanism would be to simply enjoy a slice pie and remember to enjoy the occasional simple things in life. mmmhmm
Oh! and that’s no delusion at all Chris! I’d say double scoop the whip cream for Damn Interestingnes. Hope to see some more pie like articles soon!
Nonesuch said: “Alright I enjoy reading DI articles as much as anyone, but in fairness I don’t see where people regularly deceiving themselves happily to go off to work or play in poisonous environs such as painting luminous clock faces or throwing lawn darts in Love Canal backyards, let’s say… is such a great survival trait… and I imagine the folks in those same circumstances who were saying to themselves “this really blows and I look like hell” could give themselves a solid vote of mental confidence and more positive esteem in the longer run, if not actually motivated to correct the environment themselves..”
I second that notion (I always love references to past articles). I also think that Chris did one hell of a job on this article. Can I hear three cheers for the noob? I certainly hope so.
BTW Floj… you forgot the second s in “Damn Interestingness,” but I’ll forgive you if I can also get a slice of pie (no extra whipped cream required– I know I’m skeezing it). Also (and I’m not sure here but I think I heard this somewhere) an overly clean environment can lead to a greater weakness (I do love those two words in proximity) to sickness.
This comes as no surprise to me. Many of the intelligent and rational folks I know (including myself) are disproportionally inclined towards depression. We don’t have the ability that most “normal” people have to sugar-coat reality with religion, susperstition, magical thinking, or just plain ostrich syndrome. We see the world and life as they really are, and it ain’t a pretty picture.
jarvisloop said: “From my perspective, not nonsensical at all. If anything, it’s one of the truest statements about the state of humankind that I have read. To a degree, it’s analogous to “Ignorance is bliss.” On the other hand, Albert Camus’ “The Myth of Sisyphus” supports your statement.”
I wouldn’t say that a statement suggesting Wisdom and Happiness to be mutually exclusive is analogous to a statement assigning a property to Ignorance.
Even if you take definitions of words to be static, which they never are, saying “Ignorance is Happiness” is not the same as saying “ONLY Ignorance is Happiness.” You cannot draw any conclusions about the relationship between Happiness and Wisdom from the first statement.
I had severe clinical depression, and was cured by buddhism. Pure Buddhism is a religion with no gods, no superstitions, although it may seem otherwise to those who are unfamiliar with the core teachings. I would prefer to call it a psychological tool more than a religion.
In Buddhism, depression is caused by ‘self cherishing’ meaning that you think you are more important than you really are. Thinking you are less important is also unhealthy. Balance is what is important. Acceptance. Equanimity.
It is interesting to read psychology articles and relate them back to the Buddhist view, for essentially, the Buddhist view is the oldest psychological doctrine we know, and is very similar to Maslov’s Theory of Self Actualization.
Ask not ‘what is the probem?’ but ‘where is the problem?’ and the answer is always ‘ in the mind.’
For here, now in the present moment, if we care to focus on it, we may see that there actually isn’t any problem, and that the problem is one of our own creation. Clinging to ideas and memories, creating the problem ourselves.
Higher consciousness may mean union with god, but it really means choosing the best mental state for current circumstances.
Rid yourself of your delusions! We all have them. Get back to reality. It is only an illusion anyway.
Breathe!
Be still!
Enjoy your inner silence!
However, once you have a major depressive episode, in my experience you never fully recover.”
You can recover. Fully, when you see that it is not chemicals that cause it, but your interpretations about things. Why not try forgetting about yourself? It worked for me.
sorry if someone else already said something to this end, but here goes.
Has anyone here ever read into hindu/buddhist/tantric enlightenment? I own a large “bible” of tantra, and much of the philosophy in it is related to or directly discusses this article’s topic. It is hard to explain, but allow me to give an example:
Tantra is a series of techniques to become elightened, and a specific one that comes to mind is “be hopeless.” Supposedly, giving up all hope, optimism, etc. will result in liberation (moksha) from the dream that is life. There is also whole plethora of other techniques that run along the same lines, such as pretending (and thusly, mentally becoming) dead. Death [of the mind] is a common theme in tantra, allowing for total attentiveness on “the inner” (which i assume is an objective reality.)
of course, don’t take my word for it, i’m only a teenager who doesn’t entirely feel like exerting the effort of explaining a few thousand year old religion.
Hmmmm.. depression. I not a big fan of such an idea. What defines depression and what causes depression? Is a state of introspect? I think about this alot actually, and I wonder what thoughts trigger it. Is it questions you ask yourself? If so, what words are the most common in these questions? Is it ‘I’ or ‘me’?
I see so many depressed people joining groups that provide community service and asking friends for help or some form of therapy. Is that selfish, to act on the motivation of helping yourself? Thinking only of yourself closes your world to yourself.
Perhaps, depression is ultimately a selfish state of mind. A state of desire for personal gratification by means that does not return the favor to those around you.
Perhaps, thinking of yourself and wondering why you have problems is the reason you have them.
Sorry if y’all hate me now, this is just a personal analysis.
In conclusion,this is how I feel:
Live in service of others, not yourself.
I am a OLD WOMAN and I tend to agree that one never recovers from a major depressive episode. It has been 50 years since my unsolicited departure from my “personal perceptions of reality”. Buddhism is close, very close, in quelling the demons that rage in a shattered mind..it allows that inner silence and peace to be present within and heal, BUT, You never will be the same again. Better or worse,but never the same.
It has taken decades to realize that CONTROL over reality is an illusion. “ME” has also come close ,”God, Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change”. God ,Self actualization or depressive realist ,in the end we control nothing and in that knowledge is freedom.
“WHO BINDS YOU
NO ONE BINDS ME
then
WHY SEEK FREEDOM”
After the fact;
I feel more evolved as a person. I am almost free of the weight “control” placed on on spirit and one day I will be completely free and be able to give back positive energy into Others Reality.
I loved this.
DI for sure.
The comments were great as well.
I WISH my depressed friends would get a life and start helping others instead of dragging me down with how blue they are! I am too busy to even listen to them, but they call to talk anyway.
It certainly isn’t selfish to help others, knowing it will help you. It is a silly excuse NOT to. A lot of depression is based on silly excuses.
Had depression/took meds/learned better ways to cope with the problems/improved diet/cured for ten years/don’t look back. My religion helps.
Tantra is a series of techniques to become elightened, and a specific one that comes to mind is “be hopeless.” Supposedly, giving up all hope, optimism, etc. will result in liberation (moksha) from the dream that is life. There is also whole plethora of other techniques that run along the same lines, such as pretending (and thusly, mentally becoming) dead. Death [of the mind] is a common theme in tantra, allowing for total attentiveness on “the inner” (which i assume is an objective reality.)
Graet point. I just wanted to clarify a bit and point out that the underlying idea here is to give up wants and expectations, not necessarily become the kind of “realist” this article is talking about. We automatically project our feelings and expectations onto situations, which makes us unable to see the situation “as-is.” In this sense giving up optimism is really the same as giving up pessimism, you’re essentially transcending the whole “expectations” framework altogether.
To clarify the part about death… this may be talking about death of the ego. The ego keeps the mind in a neurotic state of monitoring itself, trying to draw wanted things closer, trying to push unwanted things away, trying to impose ignorance on everything else… creating projections and expectations, dealing with pain of discovering that these projections do not correspond to reality, which they cannot possibly do. This occupation is very real, very immediate, very palpable. It also seems very important. We feel like we have to do it. It makes our world seem solid, reliable. We fear not doing it. This is the fear of death which prevents us from seing what’s really there.
By the way, the difference between the internal and the external is an illusion as well. So when you’re talking about death allowing “total attentiveness on the inner,” you’re really talking about transcending the illusory difference between “inner” and “outter.”
Hope this helps!
Damn fine article. So ultimately, we all are a little crazy. Our perception of things will always be a determining factor, as with the age old question of is the glass half full or half empty. The article made me think of the scene in “Signs” where Joaquin Phoenix and Mel Gibson are discussing the two perceptions of God. Guess I side with Joaquin on that one I am a miracle person.
PS: Spike is right, comfortable shoes and fiber fix most things.
DI article!
But its actually not very surprising. If you look at innovation theory a lot of scientific break-trhoughs and businesses are made by people who just didn’t understand their own limitations – and therefore weren’t hindered by them:-) Guess that would be the same for happiness – your interpretation of the world is just hampered by being too reality-oriented!
This is my first visit to this blog, and I have to commend all the commentarians here for your maturity and respect of each other. As a journalist, I spend a lot of time on blogs, forums, etc. and get mightily fed up with the incessant flaming, angry retorts and general disrespect for others’ opinions that I see. Bravo to you all for discussing and disagreeing with candor, humor and consideration.
debbiebf said: “Google the elephant story: I found three men, five men, six men and nine men. There may be more. Six is probably better because nine gets kind of obsessive.”
I have to wonder, in the nine blind men versions of the story, just what were they grabbing?
Certainly the idea that depression is a selfish state of mind is true for me, a depression sufferer, and the cure is to give up the me me me stuff. And, I agree that you are never the same afterwards. Even the psychiatrist I was seeing said that depression is an exellent opportunity to find out what is really important. The answer is just simply happiness. When you see this and understand this, you also see that happiness is a selfless state of mind. A compasionate state of mind, and a joyful state of mind. These things you can learn to control, and with practice you get somewhere. So to say that you are never the same again would be true for me, but in a very positive and enlightened sense.
Even in nueroscience these days it is possible to see the depression mechanism in the brain (it is not just simply chemical imbalance, but an actual brain function!) being ‘switched off’ by compassionate or kind thoughts. These things were known and understood by the old Eastern religions, and now proven by nueroscience.
In other words,
You can’t be happy and sad at the same time!
Common sense! Not esoteric mysticism!
Also someone made the comment about tantra killing the mind. That is baloney. What tantra is, is understanding the mind, and how thoughts determine your own quality of life. To switch off thoughts, as in tantric or meditative techniques allows you to see reality as it is exactly. Stuck in the moment and forever changing, including thoughts, beliefs and so on.
A tantric practitioner is someone who never judges or blames anyone for anything, (including themselves) and takes complete responsibility for their own emotions and experience. The make friends with uncertainty, rather than trying to control it as we do in our western materialistic lifestyle.
This is actually a much simpler and easier way to live, but it does take practice.
It is the lazy mind that relies on other things, people, places and so on for well being.
Remember the happiest man in the world was asleep on a train and his laptop was stolen. His only regret was he didn’t know where to send the power cord….
Reality is made of only of energy and information, and truth is made only of observation and choice. Choice is interpretation, and this is most absolutely the key to happiness. So throw your antidepressants away!
By the way, the glass half full is the optimist’s view, the glass half empty-the view of the pessimist. But to an engineer, the glass is too big.
ha ha ha…
alexeyg,
Well said.
Well, in the great words of the Beatles:
“Nothing is real”
so why worry about it all in the first place?
Instead of teaching those with a more rational perspective to see the world optimistically, consider what we can learn from these realists, in applying their critique to the political, social and educational realms!
Someone mentioned that to open and give of ones-self to others will help. (Too many good comments to give proper credit,forgive me.)
This is a very true statement.
I believe Debbie said that she has depressed friends that refuse to see the lighter side, and drag her down. I do understand this also, when some depressive’s get so self absorbed in wallowing in “poor me” they become human black holes, ready to literaly suck the life out of anyone who volenteers to help them.
When you meet these types, run, do not walk, as quickly away as you can.
Now yall who know me, know my mantra is “Have an attitude of Gratitude”. It has served me well. I have found that when I run into an excessive case of the Me-me-me syndrome someone mentioned, then the best thing to do is go out and give something away.
It can be as simple as allowing the person behind me in line at the grocery with three items, step ahead and check out first. Or pitching a ten spot there to pay for those diapers, or formula that young couple are asking the cashier to put away.
Did a homeless person ask you for change today?
Take a large ziplock bag to your bathroom and drop in a few of those old hotel soaps and shampoos, that 50 cent tube of toothpaste, that old perfume you never wear, a comb, and deodorant. Order two sandwiches and coffees when you stop on the way in, and then ask that person if they would like to have these items. If that one says no, then ask another. You will find someone who will be grateful and that simple “thank you and God bless”, will brighten your mood for a week.
I cater to a certain extent to my depressed residents. Several of the women I have known have intertained the delusion of pregnancy; case workers, doctors,et all, have tried unsuccessfully to curb these fantasies. I say “why”?
What the hell harm is this delusion doing to this person? They know deep inside that a 10 yr, pregnancy is not reality. So What?! I buy them a baby doll and they are delighted. They care for “their baby” and are happier than they have been in years. No harm, no foul.
When one is wallowing in depression, we find something that person can give to another. (Miss so-n-so can not read, your job is to see that she understands the chore chart each day. You have all these extra clothes that you have outgrown, lets sort through and give them to one of the others who has less. Can you run the microwave? Hows about fixing lunch for the group today, while I run errands, everybody loves the Cook around here, LOL.)
Sometimes though,you just have to look at the cause or root of the depression and mourn. If this is the case, then allow yourself 15-30 minutes a day to dwell and wallow, rant and sob, piss-n-moan. Then put it away (literaly)in a box under the bed or in a closet, and decide to live the rest of your day in blissful, irrational joy. Sounds silly, but it works for almost everybody I know.
Well hell, I forgot to thank you, Christopher S. Putnam, for this DI! article. Hope to read many more of your contributions in the future!
willy said: “By the way, the glass half full is the optimist’s view, the glass half empty-the view of the pessimist. But to an engineer, the glass is too big.
ha ha ha…”
But to a realist, it’s a glass that hasn’t been knocked over yet.
Happiness for most people lies in ignoring the obvious.
alexeyg said: “This is the fear of death which prevents us from seing what’s really there.”
Interesting that you should mention that. Have you read the Pulitizer-Prize-winning “Denial of Death”? I can’t remember its year of publication, but it is an incredible philosophical work. It contains some interesting ideas as to why humankind has developed religions, builds great structures, … and has children.
One more item: I once taught a class that used the Christians’ Holy Bible strictly as a work of literature, and my students looked for poetic and literary devices, character development, etc. One of the textbooks contains a preface that refers to the first several books of the Old Testament as “Hebrew mythology.” That caused an interesting discussion, as you might imagine.
pacificwhim said: “This is my first visit to this blog, and I have to commend all the commentarians here for your maturity and respect of each other. As a journalist, I spend a lot of time on blogs, forums, etc. and get mightily fed up with the incessant flaming, angry retorts and general disrespect for others’ opinions that I see. Bravo to you all for discussing and disagreeing with candor, humor and consideration.”
Pacificwhim: Ordinarily, I never bother to read blogs, etc. because of the general tone of the conversation and of the level of the writers’ comments. More often than not, most resemble talk radio programs of any political persuasion or some of the “debate” programs on the cable-news channels.
You are right about the participants here in DI. Speaking solely of the others and not myself, I can safely state that they are a rare breed, and I look forward every day to reading the new postings. In all truth, the vast majority of the posters think and write far better than do my students, even those students who are older and supposedly “advanced.”
Usually, I never post anything, but, because of the others’ thought-provoking comments, I have been on a posting jag lately.
Carrying on from what Tink said, I personally believe that one of the major things lacking in society these days is consideration for other people. The world has become too much about people worrying about what benefit they can gain from their actions and too little about just doing something for the satisfaction of helping others. I know not all people are like this but from what I see on the news and even in my life, it just reinforces this view. Just think about how often people push in front of a queue, or refuse to let a car in on the highway. It just seems people are getting more and more selfish.
I am constantly told that I am a pessimist and way too negative and I suppose the above reflects that. I like to think I am a realist. That could just be me viewing myself
a) in unrealistically positive terms
;)
It is odd that we deceive ourselves by thinking that others will care about our faults as much as we do and by also denying that our faults exist. We deceive ourselves both negatively and positively. Do we achieve dynamic equilibrium by inflating and deflating our egos constantly?
Nicki the Heinous said: “It is odd that we deceive ourselves by thinking that others will care about our faults as much as we do and by also denying that our faults exist. We deceive ourselves both negatively and positively. Do we achieve dynamic equilibrium by inflating and deflating our egos constantly?”
Wow, that is very deep Nicki! You may have hit the nail on the head, so to speak.
Want to thank all yall for the witty and funny comments you have made in the past four or five articles, laughter is the best medicine. The best new cure for depression? Go read Damned Interesting.com lol.
Oh, and thank you Alan and friends for all the recent articles on the mental lately.
With all due respect to the Techies out there, it is a refreshing change from bombs, warcraft, isotopes and espionage! ;-)
The first article I read on DI! was about feral children…still a facinating read!
https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=537
Tink said: “Want to thank all yall for the witty and funny comments you have made in the past four or five articles, laughter is the best medicine. The best new cure for depression? Go read Damned Interesting.com lol.
Oh, and thank you Alan and friends for all the recent articles on the mental lately.
With all due respect to the Techies out there, it is a refreshing change from bombs, warcraft, isotopes and espionage! ;-)
The first article I read on DI! was about feral children…still a facinating read!
https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=537“
Hey! don’t leave yourself out of the DI comment credit!
Good suggestion on how to work with depression, I won’t try to paraphrase it. Y’all need to go read it yourselves. It’s kinda’ like pie! mmmhmm
Spike said: ”
Deep down, I believe most people just need a really comfortable pair of shoes and plenty of fiber and they will be right as rain.”
Haha! High fiber. Helps things pass.
Oh! That also made me think of the frist article I read! It’s another science one (sorry Tink):
https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=337
Damn Interesting indeed!
Thanks again Christopher M. Putnam for sparking this deep discusion! We get to see alot of different philosophies on life!
jarvisloop said: “But to a realist, it’s a glass that hasn’t been knocked over yet.”
No, to a realist, there is a glass. Someone who predicts that the glass will be knocked over and worries about it is a pessimist. Someone who thinks the glass will remain as it is forever is also a deluded optimist.
When the glass gets knocked over, the unaware will freak out, lament, regret, hate what has happened. The enlightened will clean up the mess and get on with life.
But for the time being, i.e. the present moment, the only thing that is real, and not a projection of the mind, there is a glass.
Perhaps you see the point?
It doesn’t matter.
In other words, it is not the glass which is important, but the thoughts that are applied to it.
Such is life.
I’ve been lurking on this website for a long time now but this is my first post. Welcome to DI, I look forward to more of your articles!
willy said: “No, to a realist, there is a glass. Someone who predicts that the glass will be knocked over and worries about it is a pessimist. Someone who thinks the glass will remain as it is forever is also a deluded optimist.
When the glass gets knocked over, the unaware will freak out, lament, regret, hate what has happened. The enlightened will clean up the mess and get on with life.
But for the time being, i.e. the present moment, the only thing that is real, and not a projection of the mind, there is a glass.
Perhaps you see the point?
It doesn’t matter.”
Surely if it exists it does matter. That’s as if saying a tree in your front yard doesn’t matter. Definitely a philosophical debate, to which I’m sure you’ll mop the floor with me on, but worth debating. BECAUSE IT [the debate] EXISTS :)
forgive me my transgressions, but aren’t we all forgetting the guy who likes to ask: “what glass?”
on that note, willy, a poet and a thinker can sound more like a buddha than buddha himself, but he still is not, in fact, buddha.
this isn’t a contradiction to anything you’ve said, but merely a question of how necessary it is (i couldn’t think of a proper word good god there’s a firefly in my bedroom)
willy said: “Perhaps you see the point?
It doesn’t matter.”
I don’t get it. Should I eat more or less now?
willy said: “But for the time being, i.e. the present moment, the only thing that is real, and not a projection of the mind, there is a glass.”
Even in this area, different thinkers have had diverging opinions. Think of Descartes’ “ergo cogito sum.”
Emperor Condore said: “forgive me my transgressions, but aren’t we all forgetting the guy who likes to ask: “what glass?”
on that note, willy, a poet and a thinker can sound more like a buddha than buddha himself, but he still is not, in fact, buddha.
this isn’t a contradiction to anything you’ve said, but merely a question of how necessary it is (i couldn’t think of a proper word good god there’s a firefly in my bedroom)”
When you have the time, please consider reading Hermann Hesse’s “Siddhartha.” It is a novelized account of Sidhartha Gautama Buddha’s early years and of the path that led to his comprehension of “the holy Om.”
EVERYTHINGZEN said: “Surely if it exists it does matter. That’s as if saying a tree in your front yard doesn’t matter. Definitely a philosophical debate, to which I’m sure you’ll mop the floor with me on, but worth debating. BECAUSE IT [the debate] EXISTS :)”
Well, whether you think the tree is important or not doesn’t matter, because it does not really change the tree in anyway does it? (unless you cut it down for some reason…)
And regarding Buddha… anyone can be a Buddha. When I am a Buddhist, I annoy everyone, but when I am a Buddha, I don’t bother anybody.
Perhaps I should shut up now.
I have not read Siddharta by Hess, but I am familiar with the history. He was just a man who searched out and saw the truth about thought, the human condition etc. Not the only one either. Einstein also ‘noticed’ similar things.
A lot of what these people talk about is counterintuitive, which is why it is so hard to grasp for most people. If you tell someone that time does not exist, and that there is merely a constantly changing present, for example, you run into what has been described as ‘pre philosophical intuition’ – it seems that time exists, since we have all these memories ( which also only exist in the moment too…) So most people don’t want to accept the counter intuitive. But closer exmination of what is really happening will tear the covers off the illusion.
The past is history, the future is a mystery but the moment is the gift.
That is why it is called ‘ the present’….
Anyway, I’ll shut up again!
Cheers!
And you are right. What glass? The glass is only a thought. You might also notice that that thought is not you.
Interesting isn’t it?
Willy that’s one heckuva point.
Our brains process 400 billion bits of information per second but we are only aware of 2,000 of them. Perhaps the tree, or the glass, isn’t really a tree or a glass at all.
Just think about how often people push in front of a queue, or refuse to let a car in on the highway. It just seems people are getting more and more selfish.
Well, this is what you will see if you have that particular pre-conception. If you have a different mindset you may see tens of cars that are standing in line instead, or people letting each other through. The funny thing is that you are being a “realist” in both cases.
But for the time being, i.e. the present moment, the only thing that is real, and not a projection of the mind, there is a glass.
Just “there is,” because “glass” is a projection of the mind as well :)
Our brains process 400 billion bits of information per second but we are only aware of 2,000 of them. Perhaps the tree, or the glass, isn’t really a tree or a glass at all.”
Interesting numbers… Brains are not digital, so I’m very curious as to what can be considered a “bit of information” in this case :) Would you happen to have the source?
Is there a glass? We can’t know.
Nicki the Heinous said: “Is there a glass? We can’t know.”
What does it mean to know there is a glass?
EVERYTHINGZEN said: “Willy that’s one heckuva point.
Our brains process 400 billion bits of information per second but we are only aware of 2,000 of them. Perhaps the tree, or the glass, isn’t really a tree or a glass at all.”
Source?
alexeyg said: “What does it mean to know there is a glass?”
To know is to believe, right? Does it all come down to faith in the constructs our minds have built for us? We are all connected through matter and energy yet all seperated by relative perception. Like the blanket analogy from,” I
I was refering to the film, I heart Huckabee’s but it cut that out for some reason… :(
Believing is probably the problem. The point is to try and not believe. When we do that, we take away the sunglasses that distort our view. I think I could sum this up with the example of the electric sign board. The matrix of little flashing lights gives us the illusion of words moving from right to left. You all know the one. Like the thing in the stock exchange. The mind fills in the meaning, and instead of seeing simply flashing lights, we see moving words. But if you look closely, you notice there are only flashing lights.
While not digital, the same property of emergence is what makes things seem the way they are, when you get down and look from the subatomic level and so on.
So it is the challenge to experience the pure, ‘flashing lights’ version of yourself and the world.
Are words meanings or just vibrations in the air?
Or the old Zen story:
wind moves.
flag moves.
No- it is the mind that moves.
Getting back to the subject of depression – I have this belief that I am important. Things are not going as planned. My thoughts and ideas are important to me. All these are like the flashing lights. I see them through a set of beliefs, tendencies, instincts, conditionings…. and low and behold, I get depressed. The emergent phenomenon (the depression) results from a bag full of beliefs, ideas, moral standpoints, condtionings and memories.
A wave in the sea becomes enlightened when it knows it is only water.
So to is the human being.
A wave.
alexeyg said: “Interesting numbers… Brains are not digital, so I’m very curious as to what can be considered a “bit of information” in this case :) Would you happen to have the source?”
I think you could postulate that at the quantum level, things are digital, but not binary.
Coherent said: “Very interesting! Consciousness itself is a subjective phenomenon, so we might expect that self-deception is part of the motivational process. Exactly what does it take to get up out of bed in the morning? Does everyone actually accomplish the things that they expect to every day? No, but they continue to be motivated on the same premises day after day.
It’s likewise possible for people to hold unrealistically negative perceptions of various subjective judgements. But this is less common because it’s a demotivator instead of motivating factor in someone’s life. The positive self-deception is more common because, ironically, it’s good for you. It leads you to exert more strenous efforts because you deceive yourself into thinking that your efforts have more effect than they actually do.
As a survival trait, positive self-deception gets things done, and that’s why everybody does it.”
I think this idea of positive and negative is very interesting. What about neutral? It is an interesting thing to contemplate. What happens in neutral? Rest. Total peace.
Neutral is the midpoint between positive and negative. The total and unbiased view. Balance. Acceptance and unbiased observation of all the phenomena that make us what we are. Clarity.
This does not lead to expectations born of positive thinking that lead to disspointment, nor the depression, hate or cynicism that is born of a negative bias.
This neutral stance leads to absolute truth.
That truth is the truth of love.
Acceptance=peace=forgiveness=love.
What greater motivation do you need in life?
Simple isn’t it?
On the subject of the vagaries of classifying mental illness, might I suggest a piece on the Rosenhahn experiment as a follow-up…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment
Liquid said: “To know is to believe, right? Does it all come down to faith in the constructs our minds have built for us?
I’m a little allergic to the word “believe,” to tell you the truth :) Beliefs seem to originate during attempts to assert and project certainty. Seing what’s there is difficult when one is busy to asserting and projecting because the flow if information is going out instead of coming in :)
We like to think of knowledge as something static, but it is actually very dynamic. Knolwedge is dependent on the context.
Consider these very different kinds of knowledge: “this is a glass, we can pour something in it and drink from it,” “this is a glass, it is not a part of the table, it is not attached to it,” “this is a glass, it will fracture if it falls.”
Or this example: “I know how strong this pedestrian bridge is, I know it can support my weight” vs “I do not know how strong this pedestrian bridge is, I do not know if it can support a car”
willy said: “I think you could postulate that at the quantum level, things are digital, but not binary.”
Unfortunately my knowledge of the qunatum theory is somewhat vague… It sounds like you are talking about breaking it down until we get a bunch of really small particles each having a finite number of states… It makes sense, but certainly not in a context of “let’s calculate how many bits of information are being processed by the brain” ;)
Frankly, I don’t even think we can meaningfully define what it means for a brain to “process” something :)
hmmm maybe when they say “our brains process 400 billion bits of information per second” they are talking about all the information that gets received, assuming it gets processed as well… that could be somewhat easier to estimate… then again, stating that we are only aware of 2,000 bits of it is just plain silly :)
sillyokio said: “Source?”
Pretty sure it was Fred Wolfe, quantum physicist, refer to the movie “What the Bleep: Down the Rabbit Hole” (a documentary you can rent at your local blockbuster, however if you have no working knowledge of quantum physics or interest in it you’ll have a tough time sitting through). You can check out this link, I do recommend the quantum edition because it has interviews with all the scientists that are quitre interesting indeed.
http://www.whatthebleep.com/rabbithole/
Don’t be repelled by the intitial sort of “strangeness” at the beginning. It really is an amazing film.
Also for reference, another scientist in the aforementioned movie, Dr. Stuart Hameroff, wrote the book “Ultimate Computing: Biomolecular Conciousness and Nanotechnology”. For a more proper citation, the pdf for of the book, please see page 12 bottom paragraph for computations on brain computing in humans.
http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/pdfs/UltComp_v51.pdf
Took me a second to find it, enjoy.
Everythingzen,
Unfortunately this film seems a little suspicious:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_t%D0%BDe_%E2%99%AF%24%2A%21_Do_%CF%89%CE%A3_%28k%29%CF%80ow%21%3F
There is plenty of very interesting and very exciting information out there about the brain… Ideas that involve quantum mechanics are at best immature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
Quantum mind theories are based on the premise that quantum theory is necessary to fully understand the mind and brain, particularly concerning an explanation of consciousness.
This would be great resource for somebody interested in finding a starting point into the current state of consciousness research:
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Sources-Scientific-Consciousness-Bradford/dp/0262523027/ref=sr_1_1/105-5044685-0591634?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182543589&sr=8-1
alexeyg said: “I’m a little allergic to the word “believe,” to tell you the truth :) Beliefs seem to originate during attempts to assert and project certainty. Seing what’s there is difficult when one is busy to asserting and projecting because the flow if information is going out instead of coming in :)
We like to think of knowledge as something static, but it is actually very dynamic. Knolwedge is dependent on the context.
Consider these very different kinds of knowledge: “this is a glass, we can pour something in it and drink from it,” “this is a glass, it is not a part of the table, it is not attached to it,” “this is a glass, it will fracture if it falls.”
Or this example: “I know how strong this pedestrian bridge is, I know it can support my weight” vs “I do not know how strong this pedestrian bridge is, I do not know if it can support a car””
I like ‘allergic to beleif’ thats a goody!
What I think we can learn to do with practice, as you say reagrding interpretation, is learn to shift our consciousness around at will. You can focus on a concept, or you can focus on a sensation in the body and so on. you can start to see how you are actually making little tiny choices all the time.
In other words, you stop having ‘moods’ and move around ‘consciousness matrices’
That is the result of the practice of awareness. And its a goody too!
alexeyg said: “Unfortunately my knowledge of the qunatum theory is somewhat vague… It sounds like you are talking about breaking it down until we get a bunch of really small particles each having a finite number of states… It makes sense, but certainly not in a context of “let’s calculate how many bits of information are being processed by the brain” ;)
Frankly, I don’t even think we can meaningfully define what it means for a brain to “process” something :)
hmmm maybe when they say “our brains process 400 billion bits of information per second” they are talking about all the information that gets received, assuming it gets processed as well… that could be somewhat easier to estimate… then again, stating that we are only aware of 2,000 bits of it is just plain silly :)”
Yes I would agree. If I could be aware of 2000 different things at once I would be a super guru!
I’ll just stick with 2 things, observation and choice.
I think the idea of the quantum mind is interesting, however, even if we knew the mechanics of it, would it really change the phenomenon of experience?
It is interesting to note that the nonlocal theory of quantum mechanics , the same thing being in two places at once, can be experienced by anyone.
I can be in the top of my head and the souls of my feet at the same time…
ha ha ha….
alexeyg said: “This article assumes that there is a “way things really are” and a “way we think things are.” It assumes those are stationary, and they can agree/disagree/overlap/etc. This assumption is fundamentally flawed as it requires absolute objective reality.
In other words, our cognitions can and do change the reality.”
I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking, my friend. There is much evidence to support the existence of “absolute objective reality” and none that “our cognitions can and do change the reality” (or at least the reality outside of our heads.) Science is based on objective reality, and it has done a better job at describing reality than anything else. Think about it, if believing something was true made it real then delusional and hallucinating people would be changing reality all over the place.
Also, I remind people that the opposite of being overly realistic and depressed is being overly unrealistic and incompetent, as in the other DI article “Unskilled and Unaware of It“.
eatthebiscuit said: “I thought this was really interesting. I just have one thing to say in response to depression. If you think everything will go wrong it inevitably will (self-reinforcing), whereas with hope and optimism you have more of a possiblity of things turning out well. Speaking from personal experience when I have thought positively it has usually turned out better, also the ability to cope with things, seeing the flip side of the coin (ie the bright side).”
Or perhaps your optimism is based on a biased memory where you tend to remember the successes and forget the failures? Are you sure your optimism is based in reality, or is it your unrealistic view that makes you optimistic? ;-)
debbiebf said: “I WISH my depressed friends would get a life and start helping others instead of dragging me down with how blue they are! I am too busy to even listen to them, but they call to talk anyway. “
Tink said: “I believe Debbie said that she has depressed friends that refuse to see the lighter side, and drag her down. I do understand this also, when some depressive’s get so self absorbed in wallowing in “poor me” they become human black holes, ready to literaly suck the life out of anyone who volenteers to help them.
When you meet these types, run, do not walk, as quickly away as you can.”
Wow, what great friends you guys are! For the friends who need you the most you either ignore them or flee them. I’m sure they find that soooo helpful. With friends like you guys it’s no wonder they’re depressed. :-P
Have you considered talking with them seriously about how to deal with their problems instead? It seems like that would be a far more helpful response and something you should do for a friend.
HiEv said: “I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking, my friend. There is much evidence to support the existence of “absolute objective reality” and none that “our cognitions can and do change the reality” (or at least the reality outside of our heads.) Science is based on objective reality, and it has done a better job at describing reality than anything else. Think about it, if believing something was true made it real then delusional and hallucinating people would be changing reality all over the place.
Yes unfortunately at this point there is no documented way to change that reality science deals with using thoughts alone. hmmmm well, on the other hand it was human thought that invented airplanes and changed the reality of “humans cannot fly” :) Also, somehow people become more capable if they believe in themselves, more attractive if they do not think they are ugly, etc.
Alex-
No science is unrefutable, so you can refute what the scientists in the movie say all you want and that’s perfectly okay. Food for thought, I don’t agree with 100% of the stuff in there, but don’t knock it til you watch it. Very good science in it, and please really consider the sources. These aren’t just your every day average Joe’s making stuff up…the credentials are all listed on the website, and most of them have their own sites as well.
But the movie, just like this website, gives us commentors something we all have in common; more reasons to ponder, question, and learn!! Delicious thoughts….
HiEv said: “I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking, my friend. There is much evidence to support the existence of “absolute objective reality” and none that “our cognitions can and do change the reality” (or at least the reality outside of our heads.) Science is based on objective reality, and it has done a better job at describing reality than anything else. Think about it, if believing something was true made it real then delusional and hallucinating people would be changing reality all over the place.
What about hitler? Delusional, Unrealistic. Changed reality all over the place. Or Ghandi? Realistic, Informed. Changed reality all over the place.
Perhaps not in a stictly material sense can we change things ad infinitum. Surely for example, a human being cannot create life with his mind. Biology takes care of that. But we do have some control, especially over our interpretations. This changes the quality of experience. Experience is, after all, only a quality.
It is also a well know scientific fact that there can be no science without observation, and therefor no science without an observer. Who is the observer that sees your own thoughts inside of you?
And ‘outside of our heads’ is a little conundrum isnt it? Reality happens Inside the mind. Always, without exception. Think about that. There is no movie without a screen. The brain is the screen, nature the projector, and the mind is the audience.
And, just like a movie, it is an illusion.
Do you like the movie or not? It’s your free choice to decide.
EVERYTHINGZEN said: “Alex-
No science is unrefutable, so you can refute what the scientists in the movie say all you want and that’s perfectly okay. Food for thought, I don’t agree with 100% of the stuff in there, but don’t knock it til you watch it. Very good science in it, and please really consider the sources. These aren’t just your every day average Joe’s making stuff up…the credentials are all listed on the website, and most of them have their own sites as well.
But the movie, just like this website, gives us commentors something we all have in common; more reasons to ponder, question, and learn!! Delicious thoughts….”
A lot of things can be considered food for thought… Some of those are indeed worth eating. Stating that humans use only 10% of their brains deserves automatic disqualification.
I never stated that?
I’ve only process about 10% of the comments on here, not because I’m not using full capacity but for lack of a longer coffee break! DI everyone!
The grammar part uses that not working apparently is either.
HiEv said: “I’m afraid that’s wishful thinking, my friend. There is much evidence to support the existence of “absolute objective reality” and none that “our cognitions can and do change the reality” (or at least the reality outside of our heads.) Science is based on objective reality, and it has done a better job at describing reality than anything else. Think about it, if believing something was true made it real then delusional and hallucinating people would be changing reality all over the place.
willy said: “What about hitler? Delusional, Unrealistic. Changed reality all over the place. Or Ghandi? Realistic, Informed. Changed reality all over the place.”
I didn’t say people can’t change the world, I said that our cognitions do not change the reality outside of our heads. Hitler and Gandhi didn’t change the world with their thoughts alone, but by their actions upon the world. Remove their actions, which includes communicating their thoughts, and they wouldn’t have affected anything. My point is, simply thinking and believing something does not change reality, it only affects our own behavior and perceptions. It should be obvious that acting upon the world can change it, so I don’t know why you’re treating me as though I didn’t know or was arguing against that fact.
willy said: “Perhaps not in a stictly material sense can we change things ad infinitum. Surely for example, a human being cannot create life with his mind. Biology takes care of that. But we do have some control, especially over our interpretations. This changes the quality of experience. Experience is, after all, only a quality.”
But that means that you’ve only changed your perception of the world, that doesn’t mean the world has actually changed. Changing how you experience reality is not the same as actually changing the reality that exists outside of us. If I wear rose colored glasses that doesn’t mean that the world actually becomes rose colored, it just means I perceive it differently.
willy said: “It is also a well know scientific fact that there can be no science without observation, and therefor no science without an observer. Who is the observer that sees your own thoughts inside of you?”
That’s a non sequitur. “I” am the observer who “sees” my own thoughts, but that has nothing to do with science or reality. Reality exists without observation or science; “science” is merely a highly successful method of studying reality through the use of objective measures and such. Still, all of the evidence supports the idea that events continue to occur even when unobserved.
willy said: “And ‘outside of our heads’ is a little conundrum isnt it? Reality happens Inside the mind. Always, without exception. Think about that. There is no movie without a screen. The brain is the screen, nature the projector, and the mind is the audience.
And, just like a movie, it is an illusion.”
I beg to differ. Reality happens outside the mind, the mind merely interprets the senses and tries to comprehend reality. All of the evidence supports the idea that reality existed long before there were eyes to look into the heavens and minds to wonder what was there. So, yes, there was a “movie” long before there was a “screen,” and that “movie” is no illusion. It might be accurate to say that some percentage of our perception of reality is an illusion (i.e. inaccurate,) but that doesn’t make reality itself an illusion.
willy said: “Do you like the movie or not? It’s your free choice to decide.”
Yes, but it’s not your choice to decide where the movie exists. It exists where it exists even if you want to believe otherwise. You can choose your own opinions, not your own facts.
That’s a non sequitur. “I” am the observer who “sees” my own thoughts, but that has nothing to do with science or reality. Reality exists without observation or science; “science” is merely a highly successful method of studying reality through the use of objective measures and such. Still, all of the evidence supports the idea that events continue to occur even when unobserved.
No it does not at all. In quantum mechanics, an event can only be proved to exist when there is an observer. In fact, it is quite rational to assume, however as counterintuitive as it may seem, that events do not exist without the interaction of an observer, a mind to do the percieving. And since reality IS quantum physics, then the assumtion that things exist only because of circumstantial conceptualizations merely proves the existence of the concepts, not the events themselves.
And also, I am the observer who sees my own thoughts has nothing to do with science or reality?
You are not real? Neurophysics is not science?
I don’t understand.
willy said: “No it does not at all. In quantum mechanics, an event can only be proved to exist when there is an observer. In fact, it is quite rational to assume, however as counterintuitive as it may seem, that events do not exist without the interaction of an observer, a mind to do the percieving. And since reality IS quantum physics, then the assumtion that things exist only because of circumstantial conceptualizations merely proves the existence of the concepts, not the events themselves.”
Hang on a second here. If there is no observer then the event did not exist? What qualifies as an observer? If I’ve been starting to defrag my hard drive…then going to sleep…it better darn well still be happening even though nobody is there to observe it!! Knowing how Microsoft operates…it probably isn’t. Damn that Gates!
This sounds a lot like the ‘If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it really make a sound?’. Sure it does. Depending on your definition of ‘sound’.
Reality happens outside the mind, inside the mind I analyze the reality and percieve it how I see fit.
A guy picks up a rock and heaves it…smashing a window.
The reality is – the guy threw the rock, the rock smashed the window
My mind perceives this reality as – the guy meant to throw the rock over the building, miscalculated his throw and accidently broke the window.
What really happened and what we believe really happened are two different things. Which is why science is the best way to measure reality and what is actually happening. It isn’t open for much interpretation or opinion.
I’m blabbing…sorry. Woke up in the middle of the night and the brain is all over the map.
Great article though, and I agree. Sometimes the most “normal” people, the people with the high self-esteem and strong motivation are the ones that have absolutely no clue. They are the ugly people that think they are the cat’s meow. They are the fat people that think they look hot in a bikini. They are the morons that think they are all knowing.
However, I might think the fat chick in the bikini that thinks she’s hot is in fact quite ugly, but the guy standing next to me might think she’s the hottest thing he’s ever seen. So who is off their rocker? The fat chick? The horny guy next to me? Or my nauseated self?
Regardless of your answer, maybe you are actually the one that is off your rocker for answering the way you did. This is getting deep.
It is weird though…I have encountered a few people going through their bouts of ‘depression’, they talk about how things just suck and nothing goes right for them and how maybe they should just end it all. You blow a bunch of sunshine up their ass and try to switch the topic, but in your mind you’re in totally agreement with them. Their life does suck, things always do go wrong for them…you couldn’t blame them if they decided to meet their maker. But, we insist on spinning things to make the person feel better, to make the person believe in a different reality than what both of us know is true. Once they believe this alternate and fictional reality….they are “cured”. It really is strange. Either way, shrinks seem to be getting rich off of this. Convincing people of a fairy tale reality, not a bad gig I guess.
HiEv said: “I didn’t say people can’t change the world, I said that our cognitions do not change the reality outside of our heads. Hitler and Gandhi didn’t change the world with their thoughts alone, but by their actions upon the world. Remove their actions, which includes communicating their thoughts, and they wouldn’t have affected anything. My point is, simply thinking and believing something does not change reality, it only affects our own behavior and perceptions. It should be obvious that acting upon the world can change it, so I don’t know why you’re treating me as though I didn’t know or was arguing against that fact.
I agree with that, but the actions emulate from thoughts right? so therefore, it is the thoughts which change things, in the final analysis.
But that means that you’ve only changed your perception of the world, that doesn’t mean the world has actually changed. Changing how you experience reality is not the same as actually changing the reality that exists outside of us. If I wear rose colored glasses that doesn’t mean that the world actually becomes rose colored, it just means I perceive it differently.
The world, you your thoughts, everything is constantly changing. Every single moment. That is ALL reality is. Change. Nothing more. Take a closer look!
And, just like a movie, it is an illusion.”
I beg to differ. Reality happens outside the mind, the mind merely interprets the senses and tries to comprehend reality. All of the evidence supports the idea that reality existed long before there were eyes to look into the heavens and minds to wonder what was there. So, yes, there was a “movie” long before there was a “screen,” and that “movie” is no illusion. It might be accurate to say that some percentage of our perception of reality is an illusion (i.e. inaccurate,) but that doesn’t make reality itself an illusion.
Right down on the base level of things there is only energy and information. These things are the elements of reality. Like a rainbow is made of sunlight and raindrops, and is an illusion. So too is everything else. It just that most things feel harder, thats all. And the evidence you talk of, is merely concepts created by human beings. Also in stuck in the ever changing present moment.
Yes, but it’s not your choice to decide where the movie exists. It exists where it exists even if you want to believe otherwise. You can choose your own opinions, not your own facts.
I choose my facts extremely carefully. This is a fact: There is only the present moment. That is constanly changing. Memories are in the present too. From these, we get the illusion of time. We think we are moving through time, but all that is happening is we are stuck in an ever changing moment. I don’t think anyone can succesfully dispute that fact. For, it is a simple observation of reality, or the illusion, whatever you want to call it.
To say you can change things merely by thinking about them I agree is not clearly possible, and action surely is required. But to postulate that reality happens outside the mind is logically incoherent. I mean, if there was no mind, how would we know there was reality? I think it is safe to say that it is an interaction of elements, one of which is the mind, the stage for it, that create reality. There can be no play without a stage, no movie without a screen.
It makes sense to me anyway.
HiEv said: “My point is, simply thinking and believing something does not change reality, it only affects our own behavior and perceptions. “
This statement is incorrect. By thinking I change the strength and location of electrical fields in space. This is how thinking does change the very physical reality, the kind which can even be measured by instruments.
HiEv said: “My point is, simply thinking and believing something does not change reality, it only affects our own behavior and perceptions. “
Also, would you argue that changing one’s behaviour and perceptions does not change reality?
HiEv said: “Still, all of the evidence supports the idea that events continue to occur even when unobserved.”
willy said: “No it does not at all. In quantum mechanics, an event can only be proved to exist when there is an observer.”
In any science an event can only be proved to exist when there are observers. However, it is a mistake to confuse that fact with the claim that events don’t exist unless they have been observed, because there simply is no scientific basis for such a claim. What you are saying requires a kind of “retrocausality” that contradicts known science. Events occur because of what happened before that event, not what happened after that event (i.e. observation.)
willy said: “In fact, it is quite rational to assume, however as counterintuitive as it may seem, that events do not exist without the interaction of an observer, a mind to do the percieving.”
Sorry, no, that’s not rational at all. Think about it. When we observe the furthest reaches of the universe we are seeing the consequences of things that occurred near the beginning of time. Are you seriously telling me that none of that actually happened until someone looked at it? That’s not only irrational, it’s preposterous. Billions of years worth of event history cannot be generated instantly merely by looking at something.
willy said: “And since reality IS quantum physics, then the assumtion that things exist only because of circumstantial conceptualizations merely proves the existence of the concepts, not the events themselves.”
That’s simply not correct. You seem to have a vague concept of wave function collapse and have misapplied it to reality in general. The Copenhagen interpretation, which says that “measurement” resolves the wave state. “Measurement” is not formally defined, but it does not have to be a conscious observer, simply interacting with other particles and such counts, thus events most certainly can take place without an “observer” as you mean the term. Furthermore, the Copenhagen interpretation is merely one of several possible interpretations, some of which do not even require wave function collapse. The rest of what you wrote there (“circumstantial conceptualizations”?) appears to be nonsensical gobbledy-gook.
You may think you understand quantum physics, but it sounds like you got most of your information about it from fiction or some New Age source, which isn’t a particularly reliable source for science. I’m not saying I understand it perfectly myself, but I know enough to say that it doesn’t indicate the mystical “observer effect” you’re claiming it does.
willy said: “And also, I am the observer who sees my own thoughts has nothing to do with science or reality?
You are not real? Neurophysics is not science?
I don’t understand.”
(sigh…) You and alexyg are both badly misinterpreting my words by ignoring what I’ve said previously. I know I’m anything but brief, so I didn’t want to repeat things I’d said before, thus I left out some precision that I had given earlier. I’m simply saying that outside of your own head your thoughts alone do not change reality. Your actions, such as your behavior, does affect events, but simply thinking does not. (Yes, if you want to nit-pick it does generate a minor amount of heat, a tiny electromagnetic field, and change a few chemicals which normally only has a minuscule affect outside of your head, but that’s not the kind of “reality changing” we’ve been talking about here, now is it?) The point is, merely believing something is true does not make it become true (especially not retroactively, as would be required in many cases.) Such a belief may change your perceptions and behavior, but a regular brick does not become a gold bar because you absolutely believe it is a gold bar.
My simplest example of this is to remind people of the times they’ve gone up or down stairs in the dark, and they thought there was one more or less stair than there actually was. You may have totally believed the stair was or wasn’t there, you may have even fooled yourself into thinking you could see a stair or landing that wasn’t really there, but the reality of how the stairs were laid out did not change due to that belief. Thoughts and belief simply don’t change reality in that way.
willy said: “I agree with that, but the actions emulate from thoughts right? so therefore, it is the thoughts which change things, in the final analysis.”
I don’t think “emulate” is the word you mean to use there. Anyways, it is not the thoughts which change things (outside of your head, of cource,) it is your actions. Thoughts without any change in your actions have no effect on the rest of the world, so it is silly to say that the thoughts change things. The thoughts may be the basis for the change in your actions, but it is the actions that affect the rest of the world.
willy said: “The world, you your thoughts, everything is constantly changing. Every single moment. That is ALL reality is. Change. Nothing more. Take a closer look!”
No kidding. I’m not stupid. I didn’t think the universe was static (though most of the laws of nature are.) My point is that thought, belief, and/or perception alone do not change the reality that exists in the rest of the world.
willy said: “Right down on the base level of things there is only energy and information. These things are the elements of reality. Like a rainbow is made of sunlight and raindrops, and is an illusion.”
Huh? How is a rainbow an “illusion”? It’s light refracted by rain to produce a curved spectrum of colors. That’s not an “illusion,” that’s just what a rainbow is.
willy said: “So too is everything else. It just that most things feel harder, thats all. And the evidence you talk of, is merely concepts created by human beings. Also in stuck in the ever changing present moment.”
I’m sorry, but that isn’t science, that’s sophism. Everything is not “an illusion,” and evidence for an objective reality isn’t “merely concepts” nor were they “created” by people. Yes, reality may be more complicated than it looks by simple observation (like “solid” objects are actually mostly empty space) but the evidence supporting an objective reality has been gathered, measured, and observed (not “created”) by many people through many means, and it is quite consistant.
willy said: “I choose my facts extremely carefully. This is a fact: There is only the present moment.”
Sorry, no, that isn’t a fact. We can quite readily recall earlier moments, and can to a degree sucessfully predict future moments.
willy said: “That is constanly changing. Memories are in the present too. From these, we get the illusion of time.”
You seem to use the word “illusion” quite freely to mean what “illusion” doesn’t really mean. There is no evidence that time is an “illusion,” and there is plenty of evidence that it is not. Heck, where do memories come from if not the past?
willy said: “We think we are moving through time, but all that is happening is we are stuck in an ever changing moment. I don’t think anyone can succesfully dispute that fact.”
LOL. I think anyone can quite successfully dispute that fact by telling you things that they’ve done and/or probably will do. Time stretches both backwards and forwards, and because we can act only in this particular moment does not mean that the rest of it does not exist. That’s like saying, “Normally you can only affect or perceive things in your immediate vicinity therefore the rest of the universe is an illusion.” It’s just silly.
willy said: “For, it is a simple observation of reality, or the illusion, whatever you want to call it.
To say you can change things merely by thinking about them I agree is not clearly possible, and action surely is required. But to postulate that reality happens outside the mind is logically incoherent. I mean, if there was no mind, how would we know there was reality?”
Ugh. You’re going from one silly argument to the next. What does reality care if minds exist? Reality existed long before minds existed, and it will likely continue long after minds cease to exist once again. You are not special. You do not create reality. Reality can get along fine without you. Whether we know about it or not is irrelevant to whether it exists or not.
Do you seriously believe that reality didn’t exist before there were observers? That kind of belief leads to a “chicken or egg” paradox (Which came first, the reality or the observers?) that can easily be avoided by following Occam’s Razor, and going with the far simpler explanation that reality doesn’t need observers.
willy said: “I think it is safe to say that it is an interaction of elements, one of which is the mind, the stage for it, that create reality. There can be no play without a stage, no movie without a screen.
It makes sense to me anyway.”
That makes no sense at all to me. Your metaphor is broken because reality exists independent of observers. The “play” really does go on, even when there is no one there to watch it.
Addendum:
willy said: “We think we are moving through time, but all that is happening is we are stuck in an ever changing moment. I don’t think anyone can succesfully dispute that fact.”
Aren’t those simply different perspectives on the same thing? If you view yourself as a “fixed point” then sure, it looks like you’re “stuck in an ever changing moment.” But, if you view time as the “fixed point,” then it is us, in our “ever changing moment,” that is moving forward through time. I think I can quite successfully dispute the claim that we’re not moving through time, because how you describe the situation is merely a matter of the perspective you choose to describe it from.
From the side of the road the car seems to be rushing by, but from the inside of the car it seems like the side of the road is rushing by. Neither perspective is really right or wrong, they’re simply relative to what you’ve chosen as your “fixed point” of observation.
Point of view isn’t the only thing that’s relative either, don’t forget time is relative too. If you travel near the speed of light then your “ever changing moments” will pass more slowly than someone else’s who isn’t traveling as fast. It’s hard to argue that we don’t move through time when we know that it is possible for it to pass at different rates for different objects simultaneously.
That makes no sense at all to me. Your metaphor is broken because reality exists independent of observers. The “play” really does go on, even when there is no one there to watch it.”
Prove it. How can you prove it without observing it?
I think the difference between you and me is this: You have concepts which you hold dear, I simple look at what is happening. I don’t believe any of it, as a matter of fact. So there.
This is the nature of my experience as a human. It is just thoughts, feelings. A body. Some memories. an imagination. Dreams. Ideas about stuff. Choices. Volition. This is what I experience, and it is all happening in the ever changing here and now, from which I can never really truly escape. Can you? Please teach me how. I would love to find a way to be truly solid.
ha ha ha…
HiEv said: “Addendum:
Aren’t those simply different perspectives on the same thing? If you view yourself as a “fixed point” then sure, it looks like you’re “stuck in an ever changing moment.” But, if you view time as the “fixed point,” then it is us, in our “ever changing moment,” that is moving forward through time. I think I can quite successfully dispute the claim that we’re not moving through time, because how you describe the situation is merely a matter of the perspective you choose to describe it from.
From the side of the road the car seems to be rushing by, but from the inside of the car it seems like the side of the road is rushing by. Neither perspective is really right or wrong, they’re simply relative to what you’ve chosen as your “fixed point” of observation.
Point of view isn’t the only thing that’s relative either, don’t forget time is relative too. If you travel near the speed of light then your “ever changing moments” will pass more slowly than someone else’s who isn’t traveling as fast. It’s hard to argue that we don’t move through time when we know that it is possible for it to pass at different rates for different objects simultaneously.”
That is very interesting. According to the theory of relativity, if you were to travel on a wave of light, you would experience no time at all. In other words, were that wave of light to come from say, Alpha Centauri, some 4 light years away, then that means that the wave of light is on Alpha Cetauri and in your eye at the same time.
Strange isn’t it.
willy said: “From the side of the road the car seems to be rushing by, but from the inside of the car it seems like the side of the road is rushing by. Neither perspective is really right or wrong, they’re simply relative to what you’ve chosen as your “fixed point” of observation.
Point of view isn’t the only thing that’s relative either, don’t forget time is relative too. If you travel near the speed of light then your “ever changing moments” will pass more slowly than someone else’s who isn’t traveling as fast. It’s hard to argue that we don’t move through time when we know that it is possible for it to pass at different rates for different objects simultaneously.””
I’m not sure what sort of cars you travel in…but when a person is standing at the side of the road views the car as rushing by, inside the car it would seem like you (and the car) are rushing past many things, including the putz standing at the side of the road. I’m kind of getting lost in these neat analogies, are you suggesting that because you are in a car and see the illusion of everything rushing past the car…that everything is in fact rushing past the car and the car is remaining still? Spinning it’s wheels to simply remain in a fixed point as everything rushes past it?
The next thing…about the speed of light and time. Isn’t that all theoretical? Or have we sent a monkey screaming through space at the speed of light with a Timex on his wrist? Isn’t it also a theory that if you were to travel at the speed of light you would break down into individual particles? I’m not too up on this stuff, all I know is that once you hit ludicrous speed everything turns plaid.
HiEv said: “
(sigh…) You and alexyg are both badly misinterpreting my words by ignoring what I’ve said previously. I know I’m anything but brief, so I didn’t want to repeat things I’d said before, thus I left out some precision that I had given earlier. I’m simply saying that outside of your own head your thoughts alone do not change reality. Your actions, such as your behavior, does affect events, but simply thinking does not. (Yes, if you want to nit-pick it does generate a minor amount of heat, a tiny electromagnetic field, and change a few chemicals which normally only has a minuscule affect outside of your head, but that’s not the kind of “reality changing” we’ve been talking about here, now is it?) The point is, merely believing something is true does not make it become true (especially not retroactively, as would be required in many cases.) Such a belief may change your perceptions and behavior, but a regular brick does not become a gold bar because you absolutely believe it is a gold bar.
I am not arguing that thought can change a chemical makeup of objects.
You say a thought cannot change reality… then you admit there is indeed a chande in electromagnetic field and heat. Isn’t that a part of reality? How do you define reality? Is it just bricks, or is there space for electromagnetic fields in your definition of reality as well?
You write this off as a matter of percision… but you are making several fundamental mistakes here:
1) assuming that “this all the effect we know *something* can have” is the same as “this is all the effect *something* can possibly have.”
2) saying that the difference between “very small” and “not at all” is a matter of percision.
3) attempting to make meaningful statements about “reality” without defining “reality” in meaningful way.
Hopefully you will address these concerns.
I can define reality. It is an illusion. The only thing that is real is constant change. This is the only consistent observation I have ever made regarding reality.
Nothing abides but change.
Simple.
Of course thoughts alone do not change the material nature of things on a gross level, bar telekinesis which is not a well documented phenomenon. However, on a subtler level, thoughts do change reality. Raise you arm. A thought has just changed reality.
Or perhaps, if we include action in the equation, as with the raising of the arm, or speech for that matter, then we find that thought is meaningless without action (be the action even just a change of mood), and visa versa… there can be no action without thought, even if the thought is subconscious. I would also include interpretation as a type of action, not a transmitted actioin but a receptive one.
Therefore, it seems to me that the interdependence of things is really what we are looking at, in a more total view.
And going beyond that, to the realm of origin and interdependence, I have the notion that even my thoughts are made of a whole lot of other things. The languages that I speak ( I am bilingual) come from other places, people and cultures, none of which is a pure creation of my own mind. The body which I inhabit is also made of a whole lot of other things, genes from my parents, the result of evolution, the food I have eaten, energy from nature… etc. etc etc…
So, this leads me to the conclusion that everything is made of other things, and nothing exists by and of itself in its own right. All we do is stick labels on stuff. A car is a car. If we take away the lable ‘car’ then we have wheels.. metal.. engine… then you go deeper to atoms.. then to quarks.. then strings… I mean, there is probably a point where you get to nothing, from which everything springs.
It is an interesting theophilosophical idea that science and religion begin to merge at these fundamental levels of reality. In the moment… things constantly springing into being… constantly disappearing… The Perfectly Balanced and Undefinable knife edge between the past and the future… the ‘isness’ of stuff…
The cannot ever be known center of the circle….
Someone asked Carl Sagan what it would be like inside the Big Bang.
‘This is it’ he replied.
I would say then that reality is more about elegance than anything else.
hello to everybody !
Newbie here.
Damn interesting article I must say since I work in mental health and what is said definitely goes against the grain of what I try to do about depression.
It definitely seems to true that ‘Ignorance is bliss’.
If that be the case all the realists are sitting at home and world is being run by ignorant bunch what an interesting theory. Hey wait ! that’s true for at one leader (oh ! god where am I getting into, I have caught damn interesting bug).
Jeffrey93 said: “The next thing…about the speed of light and time. Isn’t that all theoretical? Or have we sent a monkey screaming through space at the speed of light with a Timex on his wrist? Isn’t it also a theory that if you were to travel at the speed of light you would break down into individual particles? I’m not too up on this stuff, all I know is that once you hit ludicrous speed everything turns plaid.”
We haven’t (and with our current state of knowledge it doesn’t seem possible) accelerated anything to the speed of light, but time dilation doesn’t only happen at the speed of light – it happens increasingly as anything accelerates, but of course it’s easier to measure at greater speeds. We have actually measured this effect by sending one atomic clock round the world in a plane while keeping a synchronised atomic clock stationary – although minute (hehe it’s re a clock but no pun intended), we were able to measure that time had passed more slowly for the travelling clock.
sentinentpuddle said: “hello to everybody !
Newbie here.
Damn interesting article I must say since I work in mental health and what is said definitely goes against the grain of what I try to do about depression.
It definitely seems to true that ‘Ignorance is bliss’.
If that be the case all the realists are sitting at home and world is being run by ignorant bunch what an interesting theory. Hey wait ! that’s true for at one leader (oh ! god where am I getting into, I have caught damn interesting bug).”
Dear sentient puddle. What a lovely blog name.
I am a former mental health patient, and going against the grain seems to be how I cured myself. I did the antidepressants and it got me nowhere. Lots of meditation worked. so whats your take? I’m curious.
I read some of the more solipsist views expressed here rather dismissively, but then I opened the latest New Scientist – the cover story is “The ultimate quantum puzzle: Does the universe exist when nobody is looking?” Typically, the article was inconclusive, but essentially the basis of the article was an experiment which could only have worked if we “abandon the idea of an objective reality.” Mind-boggling stuff.
Mez said: “I read some of the more solipsist views expressed here rather dismissively, but then I opened the latest New Scientist – the cover story is “The ultimate quantum puzzle: Does the universe exist when nobody is looking?” Typically, the article was inconclusive, but essentially the basis of the article was an experiment which could only have worked if we “abandon the idea of an objective reality.” Mind-boggling stuff.”
That is what the old Buddhists have been doing for 2,500 years, and the even older vedic science also.
The problem is one of intuition. Intuition born of prephilosophical (i.e. ignorant) observation of the reality of the human experience gives us a false perspective of ourselves and the world. However, we begin to notice the conclusive and observable elements of what we call reality. There are only 5 parts. The senses, thoughts, the body, sensations, and the conscious.
All of reality that we can directly and unarguably observe is made of these things, without exception. I do not think that is mind boggling at all, conversely, it is mind simplifying.
All of it impermanent, all interdependent. All stuck in the everchanging moment.
Since this discussion is about essentially about psychology, I think the real difference comes when a person makes the decision to take complete responsibility for their life. This means nurturing equanimity. Not judging or blaming others, or yourself. Solipsist it is not. It is compassion, forgiveness and selflessness that make a person happy.
Let’s look at an example. My wife falls in love with someone else. I’m devastated. She is evil, her lover is evil. That is the western way. The object-orientated way. All of my happiness is his/her responsibility.
OR…My wife falls in love with someone else. It hurts, but I forgive, and I am no longer angry. Maybe even see her joy that she feels for the other person. Share it. Let go. My happiness is my own responsibility. Thats is the Eastern way. The self-orientated way.
Of course that is an extreme example but the point is is this, my thoughts, conditioning and beliefs about things are what cause me to suffer. The suffering is an emergent quality of interdependent elements. I place my happiness in someone else, due to a whole lot of cultural factors, beliefs and so on, the result is emotional devastation in this case.
If I look at the truth about what I think and feel and believe, change my attitude to self-orientated, then I no longer suffer. Love and sex don’t hurt. Beliefs do. I own them. I can change them. I can choose to see other’s joy rather than my own selfish delusions of jealousy and anger, of damaged self asteem and so on. That’s choice. And it takes practice, but it works.
Truth is made of observation and choice. The western material way is oblivious to choice. We think that means having bigger shopping malls. We are slaves to our desires and unhealthy states of mind. We spend so much time on ‘education’ so we can understand the mechanisms of the material world but no time on nurturing a healthy, stable and joyous mind.
It is the choice to live with a healthy state of mind, and the nurturing of that wisdom that changes things. To the point were your consciousness is no longer ruling you, but you are ruling it. Moving it in and out of the myriad of possible experiences which are available all around.
Higher consciousness means union with god to many people. However, to me it means choosing the right state of mind for current circumstances.
I mean, if a bomb goes off, you can stand around and freak out, or you can help the injured and clean up the mess.
Or if its a beautiful day, you can worry about your future of just enjoy the nice weather.
Death? Our greatest fear or our greatest adventure.
You choose.
Psychology?
Those old blokes from 1000’s of years ago got it right.
willy said: “Since this discussion is about essentially about psychology, I think the real difference comes when a person makes the decision to take complete responsibility for their life. This means nurturing equanimity. Not judging or blaming others, or yourself. Solipsist it is not. It is compassion, forgiveness and selflessness that make a person happy.
Let’s look at an example. My wife falls in love with someone else. I’m devastated. She is evil, her lover is evil. That is the western way. The object-orientated way. All of my happiness is his/her responsibility.
OR…My wife falls in love with someone else. It hurts, but I forgive, and I am no longer angry. Maybe even see her joy that she feels for the other person. Share it. Let go. My happiness is my own responsibility. Thats is the Eastern way. The self-orientated way.”
I’ve struggled to accept everything you’ve said here willy, but I like this. My attitude is actually fairly close to this (in theory – I don’t always succeed), although perhaps not quite so far. But I’m definitely a big fan of non-judgmentalism, trying to see the brighter side and alternative views, and not stressing about things out of my control.
Like when my sister is worried that her boyfriend doesn’t like her anymore because he hasn’t called her exactly when he said he would. I point out that he might have got caught in traffic.
Mez said: “I’ve struggled to accept everything you’ve said here willy, but I like this. My attitude is actually fairly close to this (in theory – I don’t always succeed), although perhaps not quite so far. But I’m definitely a big fan of non-judgmentalism, trying to see the brighter side and alternative views, and not stressing about things out of my control.
Like when my sister is worried that her boyfriend doesn’t like her anymore because he hasn’t called her exactly when he said he would. I point out that he might have got caught in traffic.”
Views are of course very useful, but I think there is more to it than just views. Its actually training the mind so that you can move it wherever you want, rather than it moving you wherever it happens to fall. Focusing on breathing is very good practice. After all, air is more important than anything else. I find the more I live with my mind on my breath, the more stable and happy I become.
Mez said: …. not stressing about things out of my control.
That IS control. We think control means intentionally changing the things and people outside ourselves. Of course we have some ability to do that, but real control comes when you are able to change your mind. That means changing your interpretation of things, and practicing that.
This is what I mean by counterintuitive. When we realize that our intuition is based upon blind and ignorant conditioning, and start to look at things the way they really are, then we find we have great control. To the point where there no longer is any fear.
For example, we think that the past, the present and the future exist, a delusion created by our ignorant intuition. But when you really look at the fact, that we are just stuck in the ever changing present moment, then we start to see the truth.
Another would be life and death. We say some things are alive and some are dead. But, the whole universe is alive with energy and constantly changing. So it it not all alive? and what is dead? no consciousness? then we are dead when we are in deep sleep.
Words. Are they meanings or just vibrations in the air or marks on paper or computer screens?
What do we find when we stop thinking and searching and just look, with a completely open mind?
Modern humans spend way to much time in their intellect and ego. Balance comes when we observe the five parts of our reality, the senses, the thoughts, the body, the feelings and the consciousness equaniminously. The interpretation and the volition.
Real intelligence is not universtity degrees or huge vocabularies or scientific or worldly knowledge. Real intelligence is only awareness. Total awareness. Omniscience, in terms of the self.
And it is available to all humans, with a little effort.
Have fun!
HiEv said: “Your metaphor is broken because reality exists independent of observers. The “play” really does go on, even when there is no one there to watch it.”
willy said: “Prove it. How can you prove it without observing it?”
I can’t “prove it” any more than you can prove it doesn’t happen. What I can do is show that it is highly likely based on the simple fact that the world behaves exactly as though that is what occurs, and that it is illogical to think things don’t happen simply because you’re not looking at them and they somehow occur retroactively once you do look at them. I just cooked myself some food in the microwave, but it’s ridiculous to assume that it wasn’t actually cooked until the moment I looked inside the microwave to get my food. Occam’s razor should lead you to the most likely conclusion here.
willy said: “I think the difference between you and me is this: You have concepts which you hold dear, I simple look at what is happening. I don’t believe any of it, as a matter of fact. So there.”
I may have concepts I hold dear, but you clearly do as well. However, I would be willing to abandon any of my “dearly held beliefs” if I was shown good evidence that they were wrong or illogical. You say you simply look at what is happening, but you don’t, you extrapolate conclusions based on those observations and then you state them as facts. You just did so. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as your conclusions are well supported.
willy said: “I can define reality. It is an illusion. The only thing that is real is constant change. This is the only consistent observation I have ever made regarding reality.
Nothing abides but change.
Simple.”
“Simple” is not the same as “true”. You expect consistency all the time, you simply don’t realize it. You expect the ground to hold you up and gravity to pull you down every time. You expect to be a human being every day of your life. You expect water to always be wet and ice to always be cold. And you expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening fairly consistently (unless you’re near the poles.) Sure, plenty of things change, but they all change in ways that are consistent with how the world works. Wombats do not suddenly become lemmings, for example. If reality is an illusion, it’s one far more complex and consistent than any you could dream of. (And I use the word “dream” quite deliberately.)
willy said: “Of course thoughts alone do not change the material nature of things on a gross level[…]”
And that’s all I’ve really been trying to say. Unfortunately everyone has been misinterpreting my attempt to make that point left and right over nit-picky and/or irrelevant details. Whether you can move your own arm, change your actions, or emit essentially insignificant amounts of EM is totally besides the point. I’m talking about people who believe that reality can be bent to their will by thought alone. People like the Breatharians, who say that we only need to eat because we believe we need to eat, and we could actually survive without food, on just sunlight and air, if we truly believed that we could (though they mix in all sorts of nonsense about 3D vs. 5D “base frequency” when saying that.) The reality is that the body needs nutrients, and you can’t simply will away reality. Prayer, crossing your fingers, “jinxing” things, etc. are all quite literally “wishful thinking,” but have no effect on reality. (Please do not repeat past misinterpretations of that line. You should know the kinds of things I’m talking about by now.) Yes, prayer may make you feel better mentally speaking, but prayer will not help a recovering heart surgery patient. The latter is what I’m talking about, not the former.
alexeyg said: “I am not arguing that thought can change a chemical makeup of objects.”
OK, but I’m arguing against the people who assert things exactly like that. If you weren’t arguing things like that then I wasn’t arguing against you.
alexeyg said: “You say a thought cannot change reality… then you admit there is indeed a chande in electromagnetic field and heat. Isn’t that a part of reality?”
Yes, it’s part of reality, I never said it wasn’t, however that’s simply not the kind of change of reality I was talking about. I’m talking about things like affecting the outcome of random dice rolls or other such gross effects without any kind of significant physical interaction, just your thoughts.
alexeyg said: “You write this off as a matter of percision… but you are making several fundamental mistakes here:”
No, you are fundamentally misunderstanding my point, despite my abundant attempts at making it clear.
alexeyg said: “1) assuming that “this all the effect we know *something* can have” is the same as “this is all the effect *something* can possibly have.””
I was assuming no such thing, I was only saying what the evidence supports. If all the evidence supports the claim that water goes down the drain into the sewers then I shouldn’t have to acknowledge the remote possibility that it gets swallowed by invisible monsters or falls into temporary black holes instead every time I talk about that topic.
alexeyg said: “2) saying that the difference between “very small” and “not at all” is a matter of percision.”
First of all, the word is “precision“, not “percision”. Second of all, I wasn’t saying that at all. I was saying that the tiny amount of EM produced by thought is simply not the kind of “reality changing” I am talking about. (see my previous reply)
alexeyg said: “3) attempting to make meaningful statements about “reality” without defining “reality” in meaningful way.”
I’m using the standard dictionary definition of “reality“. (If it helps, definitions 3 & 5-7 from that link all apply.) I shouldn’t have to define a word that is already defined.
To quote Phillip K. Dick, “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
alexeyg said: “Hopefully you will address these concerns.”
Hopefully I did, though only the last concern was potentially relevant to my point.
HiEv said: “I can’t “prove it” any more than you can prove it doesn’t happen. What I can do is show that it is highly likely based on the simple fact that the world behaves exactly as though that is what occurs, and that it is illogical to think things don’t happen simply because you’re not looking at them and they somehow occur retroactively once you do look at them. I just cooked myself some food in the microwave, but it’s ridiculous to assume that it wasn’t actually cooked until the moment I looked inside the microwave to get my food. Occam’s razor should lead you to the most likely conclusion here.
I may have concepts I hold dear, but you clearly do as well. However, I would be willing to abandon any of my “dearly held beliefs” if I was shown good evidence that they were wrong or illogical. You say you simply look at what is happening, but you don’t, you extrapolate conclusions based on those observations and then you state them as facts. You just did so. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as your conclusions are well supported.
Nothing abides but change.
Simple.”
“Simple” is not the same as “true”. You expect consistency all the time, you simply don’t realize it. You expect the ground to hold you up and gravity to pull you down every time. You expect to be a human being every day of your life. You expect water to always be wet and ice to always be cold. And you expect the sun to rise in the morning and set in the evening fairly consistently (unless you’re near the poles.) Sure, plenty of things change, but they all change in ways that are consistent with how the world works. Wombats do not suddenly become lemmings, for example. If reality is an illusion, it’s one far more complex and consistent than any you could dream of. (And I use the word “dream” quite deliberately.)
And that’s all I’ve really been trying to say. Unfortunately everyone has been misinterpreting my attempt to make that point left and right over nit-picky and/or irrelevant details. Whether you can move your own arm, change your actions, or emit essentially insignificant amounts of EM is totally besides the point. I’m talking about people who believe that reality can be bent to their will by thought alone. People like the Breatharians, who say that we only need to eat because we believe we need to eat, and we could actually survive without food, on just sunlight and air, if we truly believed that we could (though they mix in all sorts of nonsense about 3D vs. 5D “base frequency” when saying that.) The reality is that the body needs nutrients, and you can’t simply will away reality. Prayer, crossing your fingers, “jinxing” things, etc. are all quite literally “wishful thinking,” but have no effect on reality. (Please do not repeat past misinterpretations of that line. You should know the kinds of things I’m talking about by now.) Yes, prayer may make you feel better mentally speaking, but prayer will not help a recovering heart surgery patient. The latter is what I’m talking about, not the former.”
I think I agree with you . A dream and an illusion are different things. But it is interesting to look at the constituent parts of reality in terms of the mind only.
All things are made of other things. Nothing exists by itself, and nothing is permanent. A car is made of constiuent parts, and so too are our thoughts. We have memories, and our experience of the changing present moment. From these two constituent parts, we get the concept of time. I don’t for one minute assume that I can just wave a magic wand and change things, or that I have a skewed something. Just observed.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.”
I like that. That is why I try really hard to not believe. If you want to see truth, then you have to take away the beliefs and just look.
I have this human experience. What is it made of?
Wombats do not suddenly become lemmings, for example.
Great, now you tell me.
Does anybody want to buy a box of wombats?
HiEv said: ”
“
The evidence also supports a theory that stress can play an important role in making people fat. So thinking in ways that reduce stress can cause a very real change in one’s physical body. Can that be considered changing of reality by thought?
The evidence shows that smiling alone causes people to be reated as more attractive by others. Happy people are more attractive. Happy people are happy because they think about things in certain ways. They can change their attractiveness by thoughts. Can that be considered changing of reality by thought?
Christopher S. Putnam said: “Does anybody want to buy a box of wombats?”
Yes please. Can I have fries with that?
alexeyg said: “”
The evidence also supports a theory that stress can play an important role in making people fat. So thinking in ways that reduce stress can cause a very real change in one’s physical body. Can that be considered changing of reality by thought?
The evidence shows that smiling alone causes people to be reated as more attractive by others. Happy people are more attractive. Happy people are happy because they think about things in certain ways. They can change their attractiveness by thoughts. Can that be considered changing of reality by thought?”
That would be changing the quality of experience. And since reality is ulimately, in the final analysis ‘experience’ then that is what that is.
There lies the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is facts about things, speculations etc. But wisdom, although similar, is gained from experience and used as a tool for experience.
In other words, a person can have great wordly knowledge and be unhappy. This is for lack of wisdom. That is why often people say that depression is the thinking persons disease. A wise person, on the other hand, may not necessarily have great wordly knowledge but still maintain a sense of well being.
My mother in law is one such example. She is a happy person, not well educated, and she says ‘ I only think about what is infront of me’ My father is another such person. Has many degrees from university, and is very smart. He also says ‘ I only think about what is infront of me.’
We tend to think that having a powerful intellect means something important. Of course, it can be useful, but it can also be a hazard.
You can grab the knife by the handle or by the blade. That’s wisdom.
Think positive =)
try this thought experiment. Think of a banana. Are you that banana? No, you are just looking at a thought. The real question is, what is the thing that is looking at the ‘thought banana’?
Life is only thoughts. Anyone noticed that?
willy said: “Life is only thoughts. Anyone noticed that?”
Too true.
and life is only YOUR thoughts.
Brilliant article I believe in this whole heartedly, unless the disorder is physical. If we are all born with an empty head that gets filled with our thoughts and our perception of the world how would someone start acting bizarre and irrational?
pogmog said: “Too true.
and life is only YOUR thoughts.
Brilliant article I believe in this whole heartedly, unless the disorder is physical. If we are all born with an empty head that gets filled with our thoughts and our perception of the world how would someone start acting bizarre and irrational?”
Because perception, or interpretation is the key. And it is easy to get skewed. Some people say that religion is a problem, because it causes terrorism and so on. But religion is not the problem. Delusions are. And we all have them, to more or less degrees.
Hello. I wanted to post a comment about one of HiEv’s comments “Your actions, such as your behavior, does affect events, but simply thinking does not. (Yes, if you want to nit-pick it does generate a minor amount of heat, a tiny electromagnetic field, and change a few chemicals which normally only has a minuscule affect outside of your head, but that’s not the kind of “reality changing” we’ve been talking about here, now is it?)”
My point here is that thought clearly DOES affect things. Tell me anything which would exist without having it being thought of first? Thoughts are clearly more subtle and therefore more powerful than what you would call reality. There are other realities than this physical one, and this is the simplest example of that I could show you. Vedanta takes this quite a bit further using another group of logical examples about perception to strip away the illusions one holds about oneself, but for the end of achieving the total perspective. Since the goal of Yoga practice is “Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodha”- i.e. “Yoga is the suspension of the modifications of the mind.”
Swami Sivananda asserts a very different thing, and it’s clear that he wa someone with a “total perspective”. I know this may sound like a vacuous assertion to someone not familiar with him, but look into it further, and you will see what I mean. Swami Sivananda says that thoughts have properties as clear as any physical thing: color, weight, power, etc. I can no more discount this man’s assertion than I can Einstein or Hawking or Bohr. In fact, I give more weight to Swami Sivananda’s assertion, as it’s something he’s directly experiencing, not something simply “proven”, no matter how many times your proof is borne out in the world, it’s nothing compared to your personal example.
I would also assert there are some logical inconsistencies in his arguments. I would suggest clarifying the places where you are getting Newtonian like in your “missing stair in the dark” example, and where you are getting into the quantum. Mixing this up only creates confusion. Vedanta is clearer in this way. Understanding quantum mechanics is an extremely counterintuitive thing. I would suggest that understanding the truth about perceptions is also. I would also suggest that the real truth here is that most of us do not experience daily anything like a total perspective and so because of this it is dismissed as being both scientifically impossible, implausible and unprovable. I would suggest that there are some who have achieved this state, I would suggest also that we do not understand them, or their perspective properly (since we are not experiencing it) and yet should remain open to the possibility that it does exist. Because it’s not “prove-able” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I like the traditional Yogic and Vedic sciences in this way, as they take the largest possible perspective and work backwards from that, assuming that all things are possible. I can see that many thousands of years of consistent experiences elucidated by the ancient rishis of India are well-documented and internally consistent to a great extent. I liked the reference link to Douglas Adam’s work because in that he basically makes fun of this total perspective- except for the one guy. He explains the philosophy of Yoga quite well using humorous names and so on to explain negatively the basic understanding of a highly evolved Yoga Master like a Swami Sivananda. Substitute ego for humility and bingo! you have a clear idea about it as well as group of best-selling books!
I would suggest that the illusion we have in our Western society with our extremely left-brained logical thinking could stand some perspective from the fact that logic can be applied to the right brained thinker also. Vedanta shows this clearly.
If I can suggest to you a good book to read, it would be John Dobson’s “Advaita Vedanta and Modern Science” as a way of bridging the gap. Yes, it’s the John Dobson who invented and gave away to the world the Dobsonian telescope. If you want something Damn Interesting, I would do an article on him before he dies!
durgadas said: “Hello. I wanted to post a comment about one of HiEv’s comments “Your actions, such as your behavior, does affect events, but simply thinking does not. (Yes, if you want to nit-pick it does generate a minor amount of heat, a tiny electromagnetic field, and change a few chemicals which normally only has a minuscule affect outside of your head, but that’s not the kind of “reality changing” we’ve been talking about here, now is it?)”
My point here is that thought clearly DOES affect things. Tell me anything which would exist without having it being thought of first? Thoughts are clearly more subtle and therefore more powerful than what you would call reality. There are other realities than this physical one, and this is the simplest example of that I could show you. Vedanta takes this quite a bit further using another group of logical examples about perception to strip away the illusions one holds about oneself, but for the end of achieving the total perspective. Since the goal of Yoga practice is “Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodha”- i.e. “Yoga is the suspension of the modifications of the mind.”
Swami Sivananda asserts a very different thing, and it’s clear that he wa someone with a “total perspective”. I know this may sound like a vacuous assertion to someone not familiar with him, but look into it further, and you will see what I mean. Swami Sivananda says that thoughts have properties as clear as any physical thing: color, weight, power, etc. I can no more discount this man’s assertion than I can Einstein or Hawking or Bohr. In fact, I give more weight to Swami Sivananda’s assertion, as it’s something he’s directly experiencing, not something simply “proven”, no matter how many times your proof is borne out in the world, it’s nothing compared to your personal example.
I would also assert there are some logical inconsistencies in his arguments. I would suggest clarifying the places where you are getting Newtonian like in your “missing stair in the dark” example, and where you are getting into the quantum. Mixing this up only creates confusion. Vedanta is clearer in this way. Understanding quantum mechanics is an extremely counterintuitive thing. I would suggest that understanding the truth about perceptions is also. I would also suggest that the real truth here is that most of us do not experience daily anything like a total perspective and so because of this it is dismissed as being both scientifically impossible, implausible and unprovable. I would suggest that there are some who have achieved this state, I would suggest also that we do not understand them, or their perspective properly (since we are not experiencing it) and yet should remain open to the possibility that it does exist. Because it’s not “prove-able” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I like the traditional Yogic and Vedic sciences in this way, as they take the largest possible perspective and work backwards from that, assuming that all things are possible. I can see that many thousands of years of consistent experiences elucidated by the ancient rishis of India are well-documented and internally consistent to a great extent. I liked the reference link to Douglas Adam’s work because in that he basically makes fun of this total perspective- except for the one guy. He explains the philosophy of Yoga quite well using humorous names and so on to explain negatively the basic understanding of a highly evolved Yoga Master like a Swami Sivananda. Substitute ego for humility and bingo! you have a clear idea about it as well as group of best-selling books!
I would suggest that the illusion we have in our Western society with our extremely left-brained logical thinking could stand some perspective from the fact that logic can be applied to the right brained thinker also. Vedanta shows this clearly.
If I can suggest to you a good book to read, it would be John Dobson’s “Advaita Vedanta and Modern Science” as a way of bridging the gap. Yes, it’s the John Dobson who invented and gave away to the world the Dobsonian telescope. If you want something Damn Interesting, I would do an article on him before he dies!”
I really like this idea of dealing with the counterintuitive. It seems to me that intuition may actually restrict understanding rather than enhance it, as is commonly thought.
Someone said positive self deception motivates, I dont see it that way, but its probably just me. If someone is better at something they have less to work for, if you tell yourself you’re better at something then you won’t have to try as hard. If you tell yourself you are worse at something wouldn’t that motivate you to get better at it and try as hard as you can? I guess positive self deception would lead to contentness at a much faster rate. If you have 2 people who want to be socially adept and both are on the same social level, except one knows it and one thinks he is superior. The one who isnt as socially adept will realize he needs to work on his social skills while the other one will think he doesnt need to work on his social skills. All work ethic aside the one who is a negative self deceptionist (as this articles infers more of a realistic person) will be better off because they know where they stand, and a social dissapointment won’t be as devistating to them. Whereas the one who is positively decieves himself will be wondering why or putting the blame on someone else and eventually come to a realization that will make them think even less of themselves then they actually are. Assuming the 2 people in contention have the same situations aside from the self deception.
That probably didnt make sense but oh well, lol
rob5435 said: “Someone said positive self deception motivates, I dont see it that way, but its probably just me. If someone is better at something they have less to work for, if you tell yourself you’re better at something then you won’t have to try as hard. If you tell yourself you are worse at something wouldn’t that motivate you to get better at it and try as hard as you can? I guess positive self deception would lead to contentness at a much faster rate. If you have 2 people who want to be socially adept and both are on the same social level, except one knows it and one thinks he is superior. The one who isnt as socially adept will realize he needs to work on his social skills while the other one will think he doesnt need to work on his social skills. All work ethic aside the one who is a negative self deceptionist (as this articles infers more of a realistic person) will be better off because they know where they stand, and a social dissapointment won’t be as devistating to them. Whereas the one who is positively decieves himself will be wondering why or putting the blame on someone else and eventually come to a realization that will make them think even less of themselves then they actually are. Assuming the 2 people in contention have the same situations aside from the self deception.
That probably didnt make sense but oh well, lol”
Void. It doesn’t matter. Seek not the source of your problems or happiness outside yourself. Then there is no argument or running in circles trying to decide who is better or worse. Or more adept.
The really adept do no ever rely on circumstances outside themselves for happiness.
End of story.
To illucidate. This obssesion that the modern psychologist has with ‘self’ is anathema. When you really sit down and think about it, You will discover that you are mad of a myriad of things that are not you. The genes from you parents, the education you received, the language you speak, the ideas in your head, the food you eat…. etc… all of these things come from somewhere else. And all or those things, also come from somewhere else and so on and so on and so on.
Realizing this, you find yourself in the great sea of reality, and you feel humble. Selfless. Nothingness.
This is the point. This idea of positive self delusion, or negative self delusion, is just that. Delusion. Our survival instincts, sexual insincts are all there so we can exist. But when you realy look closely at what is really going on with the human experience, all happening stuck in the ever changin moment, and begin to throw away these delusions of ‘self’ then you start to see the truth.
And it is unexplainable. But you can see it. If you try.
All is interconnected, all is impermanent, and all is not you.
All you have to do is observe, like a scientist, and you will see the truth.
Simple.
mjunk said: “Dang, 2nd. Head in the oven time. Sigh.”
Good to see you have a realistic assessment of the importance of being a “first” poster.
Xoebe said: “Happiness and Wisdom are two different things, and are probably mutually exclusive.”
Anyone who had ever met the Dalai Lama or heard him speak would disagree entirely with that statement. He is the apotheosis of both happiness and wisdom.
YarrPirates said: “Anyone who had ever met the Dalai Lama or heard him speak would disagree entirely with that statement. He is the apotheosis of both happiness and wisdom.”
here here.
I think is has more to do with what you choose to focus on. People can accept the reality that their lives may not be or become what they expected and worked toward, but still choose to focus on the possitive aspects of their lives. When I focus on the negative things in my life and either can’t or don’t change them, that’s when I become depressed or angry. On the other hand, if I focus on negative things that I can change and change them, I feel great. Although sometimes, I just don’t want to deal with it so I focus on good things and leave the bad for some other time when I’m feeling a little stronger.
I find this fascinating because I was jut having this argument with myself!! I have suffered Depression and Panic attacks… And found most of my fears and troubles sprung from fears I had about bad events occurring. When repeatedly my fears were justified, I found it harder and harder to “self comfort” myself, by reassuring myself that my fears were unfounded, and unlikely, when indeed they were likely! I struggled with the fact that my depressed and pessimistic outlook was most likely the most accurate one. I do however… Believe that the quality of life optimistic people have, is much pleasanter, and much more “normal” in the sense of daily functioning…
One thing not mentioned in the article is how mindset has a very key role in shaping our actual reality, in that, if we believe we are sexy, we come off as confident and sexy. If we believe we will get better, often miraculously we do. However I’m not sure it has an effect on entities other than ourselves… For example the healthy women who rated their bodies inaccurately, may have a better quality of life due to their unrealistic view, but whether others our influenced by that view I’m not sure.
It’s a bit too late that I reply here but nevertheless after reading all the comments I felt like writting something.
First of all, the last disagreement is like a fight between materialism and spiritualism, which in my view or two different interpretations of reality that I both respect and find interesting. Maybe I am more influenced philosophically lately by the spiritual view that the world is inside our mind, yet at some points I don’t like the totallity in which spiritualists see the world in only their own interpretation.
For example, tending to the spiritual interpretation doesn’t mean that there exists no neurochemistry inbalance in the brain torturing those unfortunate mental disordered. I have seen the film “what the bleep do we know” and while I liked it very much and found it fascinating, 1) I don’t like the new age feel/message of the scene where the girl throws her pills away, because I believe there is a truth also in chemical inbalance. Sometimes it’s not enough to imagine that you are happy if you still get the negative signals in your brain. 2) Also, while I am fascinated by quantum mechanics and it’s philosophical extensions to life, I think that quantum characteristics like superposition or entanglement while observed in the atomic level/microcosm, there is no real proof that they also apply in real life/macrocosm. Though it’s still a fascinating theory.
I believe that neurochemical imbalance of the brain do play a role. It’s more helpful at the end for the individual to know that it was the biological factor that made his life so hard, instead of thinking that it’s just his thoughts just like the rest of the people and feel like he is just a stupid lazy person with excuses that tried less in life. The realization that it was harder for the individual because also of the neurochemical imbalance means for him that it was harder than the rest of the people and he really did fought against it under harder circumstances that other people can’t understand.
Also, someone said that if you tell yourself you are worse at something you would be motivated to get better at it and try as hard as you can. Believe me, it’s not the same on every person. Some might be frustrated by thinking negatively and quite while others might become more productive till they burn out. You can’t make out a general rule for every person out there in my opinion.
And yet all this discussion doesn’t have much to do with the main issue presented in the article which totally fascinated me, because I dislike the delusion of what’s normal and what is considered a disorder. It shows an alternative side where the everyday social delusion might be the disorder and the mental disordered people being “normal”. But I won’t write more about this now..
..this article introduced me also to this great site!
>>’How does one convince a depressed person that ‘everything is all right’ when her life really does suck?’
What defines a life that ‘sucks’? There is no definition to this, because it is a perspective.
So normal people have an overoptimistic perception of themselves and people with some maladjustment have a more realistic cognition. This makes sense. The irony that if I think all around me are mad and I’m the only sane person means that actually I’m mad has just been turned on its head. How about another thing though. Two years ago I thought I was going to die. I didn’t make a big fuss about it but I noticed everything in my surroundings with such heightened acuity. Every leaf on a distant tree sparkled in the sunlight. Every indistinguishable note of birdsong in the park came to me clearly. I noticed irregularities on the road surface, the way dust moved when the wind blew.. and I missed it. What was that?
So normal people have an overoptimistic perception of themselves and people with some maladjustment have a more realistic cognition. This makes sense. The irony that to think all around me are mad and that I’m the only sane person means that actually I’m mad has just been turned on its head. How about another thing though. Two years ago I thought I was going to die. I didn’t make a big fuss about it but I noticed everything in my surroundings with such heightened acuity. Every leaf on a distant tree sparkled in the sunlight. Every indistinguishable note of birdsong in the park came to me clearly. I noticed irregularities on the road surface and the way dust moved when the wind blew.. and though it was in front of me, I felt that I missed it. What was that?
Apologies for the double posting. Browser glitch. Perhaps the moderators will kindly purge.
“It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” originally penned as the opening line of a novel by Dickens, caught me by the throat when I first read it.
It strikes me that both perspectives have a role to play. Perhaps they even need simultaneous attention. It is not so easy to do, much like trying to see both images in an optical illusion at the same time.
Our selfhood includes a tangible sense of being, and of a sense of isolation, along with a yearning to belong. These traits are all in conflict.
If each of the five senses are all brought to mimimal perception one at a time, the remainder are all enhanced very quickly in response.
But if you were to manage to effectively damp all the senses at once, an unusual state of mind might occur. A sense of identitylessness. Of beinglessness. Of ex stasis. Nothingness. And at the same time, a sense of effortlessly being one with everything about you. I am not so sure this is an illusion.
But be careful what you wish for. For some, such feelings as these are bliss, nirvana, soothing, perhaps even joyful or at least content.
Others respond with fear and horror. Perhaps it has something to do with where you are in your own spectrum of being.
Moods and attentional maladjustments are now the central focus of the “mental health” industry. And the emphasis is more and more on adjusting chemical imbalances in the brain with medications. Much can be done without them. To a great extent it is possible to learn to control moods without pharmaceutical help. Worth a try.
“If each of the five senses are all brought to mimimal perception one at a time, the remainder are all enhanced very quickly in response.
But if you were to manage to effectively damp all the senses at once, an unusual state of mind might occur. A sense of identitylessness. Of beinglessness. Of ex stasis. Nothingness. And at the same time, a sense of effortlessly being one with everything about you. I am not so sure this is an illusion.”
Just wanted to point out that there are more than 5 senses. If you were to damp the 5 senses you are speaking of you would not lose your sense of “self” or of “being”. You would even still know where parts of your body (i.e. your Arms and Legs) are in relation to the rest of your body. Just a thought, but if you could manage to actually turn off ALL the senses of the body I wouldn’t be suprised if you just died instantly. If your brain thinks you don’t exist, there’s a good chance your brain can make that true.
For further reading go to this article: https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=678
The brain.
The rest of your comment is nothing more than unsupported mystical BS.
daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn interesting
This should be reasonably clear to anyone who reads Nietzsche or attends a cocktail party: the totality of truth is too terrible to utter, much less think about incestuously, I mean Freudianly. Ignorance is truly bliss, and this is why it’s cruel to spoil the fantasies of others, even if it’s Santa Claus, religion or that there’s a purpose.
If “crazy” is the inability to relate reality / point-of-view / perception in a way deemed reasonable / customary to the accepted norm, then “to agree to disagree” takes on a whole other hidden dimension. Isn’t it apparent to you too?
If someone wants to donate Mirtazapine to my cause, I’d be happy to write about the coming Malthusian crises and global overpopulation.
Do I detect a pulse?
Yes, faint, but definitely a pulse.
Seems DI still has some kick to it.
:)
Oh sorry,
not FIRST.
:)
And also not second.
:)
you’re right Don…I think it is a pulse…hooray..I knew somebody was listening
at least…oh nevermind..nobody wants to hear it…least of all me…glad you’re back anyway Alan and friends…thanks
I love the title of the article. If you saw how truly insignificant and small you are compared to the universe, it would drive you insane, at least that’s what the hitchhikers guide says……
I read somewhere (probably DI) that a person views a co-worker who does the same job as they do as doing it much worse, regardless of the person’s performance. I would think this is part of the whole self worth delusion.
Great DI article to find re-posted! Even without new material, this site has rekindled my enthusiasm for more.
As a parent of a teenager diagnosted with bipolar depression (what MY parents refered to as a bad attitude), I can totally relate to this article. Christopher writes: “How does one convince a depressed person that ‘everything is all right’ when her life really does suck?”. When my daughter was down in the depths of her depression, all my reassuring words of “you’ll be fine”, you’re alright”, “everybody feels that way sometimes”, she would counter with honest logic that I had to admit was true. There really is no point to “it all” – we scurry through our daily lives putting up with all the bullshit (some good, some bad), and then we die. No telling what happens next!
So, I still choose to be happy and optimistic, and my girl takes a bit of medication everyday, and also chooses to let herself be “okay” most of the time. But I’m still not convinced that she’s accepted my “positive outlook on life” – I believe she just ignores the sad truth like the rest of us.
Don, I gotta know, was the toe restored to its former glory?
… The bottom line…..is… that we can make ourselves believe anything we want to…
!damm interesting to read all your posted-comments… I wish I could have all of you for diner !!!
I’ve been bored at home hitting random article for near a month now and i haven’t come across this one. Damn interesting indeed!
The powers of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who do not have it.
DI.
Was this a hint for us not to consider ourselves the center of the universe and having to wait for the new DI article as a personal affront?
hey lazyfucks its been over 5 weeks since we had a new article
keep it up if you want this site to die
you are averaging less than an article a month, even including reposts
on top of that, your description of the fool is completely off, at no point is he portrayed as insane
I’m bored. I know what I’ll do– I’ll go to a website that offers interesting content for free, insult the people who run it and the ask for more free content. That seems like a fun time.
Any other good site to visit?
Suggestion?
So my depression is actually realism? How depressing!
After a great read, including the comments above, I’m actually reminded of my experience with MDMA (Extacy). After my first experience I tried to explain the feeling in words and I usually ended up compairing it to a scenario where if an asterioid hit the earth and me being so positive that I would just accept it as the way things are.
That, of course, is an extreme example of positive thinking and coping with a crisis. I myself see it as proof of the importance of how positively you react to any situation will affect you.
Im thinking of inventing a new action figure…
And I shall name him…
DI Joe!!!
By the way Donny… How do you do it? I was checking my RSS daily to try and be the first to post on this article (nonwithstanding all the comments from before it was reposted) , and I still missed out by several days.
I remember talking about this in my Psychology class, It leaves me wondering how do depressed people cure the “normal” delusional person?
An entire article without an orgy reference. How depressing.
I guess I’ll wallow in an orgy of despair…..
The toe is mentioned in the comments section of https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=861 titled Living in the Moment in case anyone was wondering.
Well, the events surrounding the toe are a very sensitive and complex issue. As you recall the genetically altered Llama’s and Collies cloned another Radiatidon, which we will refer to as me2.
After a series of complex and unfortunate circumstances, such as the capture of Time 1 (named by me of course) by the Nazis in 1945 when me2 appeared in Cronos (so named by me2 as he is a mythology buff) to rescue Alan, Jason, and I, which distracted the commies long enough for the SS elite to take the ship. Now like the commies, the Nazis decided to use Time 1 to jump back in time and set forth the events that would ensure Third Reich domination of the world.
The commies used Alan, Jason, and I as hostages to take over me2’s time ship to chase after the Nazis. This created a time paradox that created a time rift throwing both ships Eighteen Million years (give or take a millenium) into the far distance past. This also caused an incident that toppled an uneasy peace that existed between the three civilizations that existed in the Sol system at that time. Understand even before this the Maldek’s were jealous of the strong bond of friendship that existed between the Martians and the people of Earth. Anyway it is not clear if the solar war ensued because of the battle between the Communist Russians and the Third Reich Nazis or because of My and Me2’s bickering over the rightful place of my left big toe.
Regardless this caused the war of the Maldek’s against the united Mars-Earth federations. Seeing a possible advantage of our unique, though primitive technology, the Mar-Earth federations enlisted the help of Alan, Jason, and I. Unfortunately my time-slip technology, Alan’s web skills as well as his unique photography, not forgetting Jason’s dry wit help create a doomsday weapon that destroyed Maldek thus creating the asteroid belt we know today. The planet’s core spun out of orbit and was captured by the Earth and began the celestial dance that we now know as the Earth – Moon system. Unfortunately this included pieces of the dead planted that rained down on the Earth destroying the embryonic Star Hopping civilization that was just beginning. Also because Malek was closer to Mars orbit at the time, the weapon was constructed on Mars. It required undreamed of power, so they used the power of the planet’s core to power it. During the one and only firing of the device (which destroyed Maldek) the weapon’s power index became unstable, and it blew a hole almost to the center of the planet. All that remains of where it once stood is what we now call Olympic mons on Mars. Also because of the fantastic power draw of the weapon, this caused the accidental stoppage of Mars’ natural dynamo thus destroying the Martian magnetic field and causing a total, multiple species eradication thus leaving the fourth planet a barren wasteland…
– Um, what’s that? Oh, the toe – Right, you wanted to know more about the toe.
Well, it is all tied up in Red tape. Me2 has possession of it right now. Until the courts can decide if
1. Me2 as a clone has any rights, or is my property and thus has none. (His lawyer brings up the issue of personal rights and the abolishment of slavery. Friggen lawers.)
2. Since I intentionally allowed my toe to be severed, do I have any right to it now? By severing it I cut off all life supporting functions thus rendering it as organic waste. (Otherwise if I intended to keep it, why did I intentionally cut it off? Friggen lawers…)
3. My onetime toe is now part of another complete individual, thus ownership should belong to this person, as it would take surgery to return it to me. Plus additional surgery would be required to affix it back to my foot. Let us not forget that full function, not to mention that organs, limbs, etc. tend to have the risk of rejection by the recipient host. (I tried pointing out that it was toe to begin with, his lawyer asked me to prove it since the member under question was not part of Me2’s physic. Friggen lawers. )
4. This is just the cream on top of the case. It is so convoluted and buried in Red Tape that my/his toe will be a blacken-mummified raisin by the time it is decided.
I bet you are wondering why I just don’t clone myself a new toe. Because the toe in question was given to me by my mother, it’s a stinkin’ matter of principal!
Anyway, so there you go. The question of the Toe is still waiting for the courts.
The Don ;)
I don’t know about you, but I think the Don has slipped off the edge into his own little reality. What do you think? The narrator.
Excuse me for my English, for it is not my mother tongue language ( does that mean we perceive reality differently? How does our natural language affects our thought process? Dont we “think” and describe reality with words? )
I would like to comment about “objective reality” which presumably exists, as our scientific instruments indicate (brought up by a previous poster). The issue for me is not if it does, but if it does really exist, do we have the ability to objectively asses and comprehend this objective reality in a way that will not change its “true meaning”. (does our language imposes on us barriers which prevent from understanding this true nature? can we even properly ask the question?)
As a teenager I read the book “flatland” by Edwin Abbot, aimed at convincing young people that Geometry is great. In retrospect, I digested the book with a more philosophical approach.
Our senses limit the product of our thought process (inherently the input itself has a role in molding our thought process) . In Edwin Abbot’s it is demonstrated on was on the spatial level alone alone.
My point is this, we are trying to reach some “pure spot”, undiluted and untouched by our delusions and deceptions – it cannot be reached. Our consciousness, our senses, our thought process, our leads and evidences – are all preconceived, preconditioned deceptions and delusions. Like potable water fish trying to survive on a barren salt basin.
After realizing that I decided that the only reason why I actually go on living is my innate biological instinct and desire to live. A lame excuse, but one that you can succumb to without feeling exceedingly bad about it.
The Don:
I just had to register and comment on your post…
Assuming you’ve invented your story – how do you come up with this stuff? Do you write fiction for a living? Political speeches? Congressional laws?
If, by chance, it is true, aren’t you afraid of being targeted for, um, elimination, or at the very least, reprogramming? I hope that Me2 doesn’t sue you for wrongful imprisonment, since you had kept him a toe all your life.
Alan, et al:
Thanks for the great site! Even reading historical articles again, the quality and the “wow, really?” factor makes this place a favorite. And the comments! Wow. talk about getting another education! See ya!
The incident of the toe is a fictional account blithely written for the enjoyment of all. It was ripped asunder from the pristine morass of my convoluted imaginings. To better understand, my mental state is a day-to-day experience for me, not to mention those around me.
In past postings on this site, I have left cracker crumbs of personal tid-bits reflecting my education, life experiences, and mental deficiencies. As a faceless entity, I feel secure exposing some faucets that I have never shared outside this forum. There are some here who find my life a fine read whereas there are others who think it is balderdash. Personally all I care about is if what I write helps someone, or gives him or her enjoyment. That is the true reward of what any writer can do.
What I post herein is usually written quickly and without much editing. Grammatical errors, crutch words, and poorly written sentence structure reside abundantly in my posts.
I am deeply involved with other projects and don’t take the time to edit my posts. Since I usually formulate my thoughts quickly and plop them onto my keyboard to share, what you get is what there is.
I have written technical manuals and SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) for various government programs that are in use today. Composed in such a manner as to put the reader into a deep, comatose sleep. ;) I am also credited with a fantasy novel, various short stories, two Christmas stories, co-author of a western, and presently involved in writing a second fantasy novel, brainstorming for spin-offs on the western, co-authoring a Gothic novel and an offbeat, yet interesting take of the Plymouth colony. As of late though, I have been pondering creating yet another pen name and trying my garrulous nature on some science fiction, a genre that I am somewhat unsure of my ability to create a full and publishable work. After all one should be careful not to stretch one’s abilities too thin.
The Don.
The Don:
So who would win a fist fight,
you, or me2?
And does it matter if one of you is missing a toe? Does that create an off-balance?
They say that one should strive for excellence and not perfection. If one allows themselves to be “human” and accepts mistakes, it will ironically make them a happier and even more productive person. Maybe this acceptance of negative perspectives is the positive “lie” we need to tell ourselves.
Radiatidon:
Sometimes what you write is readable but at times you write a lot of crap, like in this post. Who cares what you really do and you think people are going spend time scratching their chins and wondering who you really are? You have to get more realistic than that… yawn… By the way, this article wasn’t that damn interesting.
Dear #218, The Don,
I can’t help but notice a great many similarities between your story and the Giants series, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giants_series, of sci-fi books (or at least the first 3 that I’ve read, as of this comment) by James P. Hogan. Is this merely serendipitous or have you read them as well?
Honestly, I LOVE the material on this website. All the articles are well written, and DI indeed! But the lack of new content is ridiculous. The last new article was written on October 17th. Amazing.
So, I’m normal after all.
you can accept the harsh cold of reality if you believe in jesus christ, the savior of the world. then you wouldn’t need to disillusion yourself.
To Everyone,
I must apologize. I was merely bored. I never intended for this to happen. I knew not what I was bringing to life by giving The Don something to ramble about.
Be that as it may, I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT ANYONE WOULD BE UPSET BECAUSE the don IS POSTING SOME IMAGINATIVE MENTAL WANDERINGS. I mean really, no one else is writting anything of cognisant value here. Oz, nobody is holding gun to your head. If you don’t like what your reading here, why don’t you; A) attempt to pen something yourself, or failing that B) GO AWAY!
oh yeah….myopia
LOL, that image is the perfect metaphor for this site’s current state.
(also note: capital letters are useful, and are a customary sign of respect when using proper nouns)
Amen! Preach it!
Don – who cares? Get your own space and stop plaguing us how wonderful a life you supposedly have had. (The rest of us are dead boring, of course, and will never match your standards.)
I just shat on my brand new sofa.
The voices told me I was OK but they are pretty sure you are fulla shiite……………….
I have been coming to this site for about 3 years now. I love the articles, but most especially the comments. Never felt the need to add anything until now. I have to say I am most disappointed in the lack of new material and only come here occasionally to see if there’s anything new. Well, we all know how that’s turned out. I also want so say that I was going to be first in line for the book. I know my dad would have loved it. I guess it’s not to be.
krifle: I’m not sure what your last 3 sentences meant. You are aware that the book is due out this spring, right? Check Google shopping results for: The Alien Hand Syndrome.
From the publisher’s catalog:
http://documents.scribd.com/ScribdViewer.swf?document_id=8605067&access_key=key-g29jwfw5525sh76qdwu&page=1&version=1&viewMode=book
It’s on page 11. Though I’m sure the website is waaaaayyy down from 400,000 unique visitors a month… maybe more like a couple of dozen now.
I have gone from checking this site almost daily, to checking every couple months. I will buy the book when it comes out, but the lack of new material here makes the baby Jesus cry…
I cant wait to buy all the stories Ive read on the site, only printed on dead, bleached trees.
As one of the contributors here, I feel the same way. I can tell you that there are articles ready to appear; we’re just waiting for Alan to give them the final look-over and post them. I myself have over half a dozen ideas that I’d love to get working on, but if nothing’s getting posted, I’ve got better things to do.
Thank you Richard. And etienne, I LOL’d at your “dead, bleached trees.” Then I thought you might be serious. Trees are crops.
spam deleted
I understand. It’s too hard to live by realistic notions that we are just here for no reason, someday we die, there is no meaning on things other than the one we create, it’s so hard to live with that in mind, so we invent a god as a base to hold in those hard times. But wouldn’t that account as another disillusion?
At first I’d say that it may be hard at first but once you have learned to accept the hard truth you will feel totally free!
But then I think that we are not the same. It may be easier for me to accept the truth but too hard for others. Maybe I can accept it because it makes me happy that I finally got away from this meaningless search for a purpose and I can enjoy what remains. And of course because for some reason I was always a sucker for knowing. I wanted to know in deep about many things, I tend to analyze a lot, I found it the most important to know the forces behind human behavior, to explain why I am the way I am, although it lead to endless ruminations and the feeling that the answer is far far away. Now that I know and have accept the possibility that there is no meaning of the universe I am happier. Of course I might continue to search for answers although I won’t be so easily disappointed when I don’t seem to reach near them.
Somebody call an ambulance. Katsumoto just got hit by an irony truck.
Ok ill contribute, this was a question I was asking myself and I found the answer to be fascinating
http://www.prb.org/Articles/2002/HowManyPeopleHaveEverLivedonEarth.aspx
Kiwi- a small, bitter fruit or a small bird with a big nose ,useless appendages, and a deteriorating gene pool. Take your pick.
Dude, Don didn’t just spout off out of self-promotion. He was asked:
As many, yours truly included, have noted, this site has been bereft off new content. Until Alan makes the time to update, we will have to amuse ourselves. Apparently, you amuse yourself with sanctimony.
oh yeah….an unbalance frisbee will oscillate.
#247..maybe Alan is waiting until we hit a majic number…like 250 posts…poof!! a new article!!
No, they’re just the ones we export for people like you. (Note – it’s kiwifruit.)
Yes, I suppose their legs that they walk on are useless. You’re right.
No, that’s “The Don”. (Unless you don’t know what sanctimony means.) Note the “The” in his name.
A perfectly balanced frisbee, when moving, will oscillate too. And it doesn’t even have to spin!
Ok, so your a fruit. Next.
And you’re nuts.
250th!!! Magic number hit. Roll on…
A non sequitur is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic). It is a comment which, due to its lack of meaning relative to the comment it follows, is absurd to the point of being humorous or confusing.
So NonSequitur, you’re absurd. Kiwi-guy’s comments are based on fact. ‘The’ Don is pretentious, and you’re an ass. I deal with people like you everyday. You seek conflict at every corner. Fuck off.
MonkeyBones
Wow, thanks. I have never had the opportunity to converse with an onanistic coprophiliac before. Of course, that explains the language. I am happy to see that you at least know the appropriate adjective for Don’s use of “The” before his name. Kiwi-guy apparently hasn’t cracked a dictionary in some time. Probably used his for kindling last weekend in the outback.
By the way, exactly what facts are you alluding to? The only statement of fact Kiwi-guy made was about a frisbee. Which, if you were to launch a frisbee without any spin, perfectly balanced or not, it would unceremoniously flop to the ground. You see, a frisbee obtains stable flight because of the centrifugal force created by the spin. If the frisbee is perfectly balanced, it will not oscillate.
oscillate- to swing or move to and fro, as a pendulum does.
Speaking of definitions:
pretentious-
1. full of pretense or pretension.
2. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance.
3. making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
Now I don’t know Don, so I will not presume that he thinks abnormally high of himself or merely uses “The” as a humor device. By assuming that “The Don” is pretentious, and deriding him for it, you display a capacity for self-righteousness, i.e. sanctimony.
Now, MonkeyBones, if, as you say, you deal with people like me everyday, and I am “an ass”, then I would posit that you are obviously surrounded by ass, which would make you an ASSHOLE!
kiwi-guy, isn’t it their wings?
Australia and New Zealand are separated by the Pacific Ocean.
Assholes are useful, if we didn’t have them we’d all have shitty ideas.
So he hopped on a boat with a book of matches.
And I never said MonkeyBones didn’t have ideas…
Hey MonkeyBones, I found your theme song, click the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnv8UvKFzc
That was very low. I should make an apology over that, you complete fucking wanker. Many people have died and you’ve just belittled the tragedy.
I’m leaving this group just so I don’t have to read shit like you write. Up until now, it could have been a bit of fun. Now you’ve proved your writing is worth nothing. You can go to hell. Goodbye.
Of course, that should read “If I were you, I should make an apology…”. (I guess I’m human.)
If you, nonsequitur, want to toss on some more, then please do so. Show your ignorance some more. I won’t be reading it.
Last post.
Hey nonsequitur : physics.fail! A moving mass will have a wavelength, therefore it oscillates. Basic stuff, you idiot.
Hmm, seems my rather shattered and disrupted mental state has started another range war. For starters I use “THE” in my signature as a joke not as a stately reference. As I noted in an earlier post, others coined my handle “Radiatidon” when someone stated that I was like the mafia boss of radiation safety. At first they jokingly referred to me as Radiation Don, which overtime evolved into Radiatidon. Thus is the reason I sign tongue-in-cheek as “The Don”, otherwise a humorous nod to my past.
My emotional and mental makeup is built on a morass of unstable events I lived through. Like a blind man gingerly walking a tightrope, I wobble and sway knowing that my goal is just ahead, but hoping that I have the fortitude to accomplish that daily goal least I slip into the unknown below.
As stated I try to post without insult, sometimes my wordage seems snobbish and other times childish. I apologize, as that is my mental makeup. I wish not to seem highbrow, speaking down to those around me, nor immature and unable to fit in.
Just because I answered a question without forethought I am once again under attack. Makes me feel like I am standing center stage at a black tie affair only in a pair of tartan-patterned tights and a signlet.
If my words offend, then skip them. I sincerely doubt that someone is holding your face against the computer screen demanding that you ingest my script. Rather that than have my words act as a physic, causing you to berate anti-homage from the bowels of your mind.
So mon frère, peace.
The (a humorous nod to the root of my nickname) Don (a simple adage in reference to my cluttered past)
If you’re not serious — and the evidence to date suggests that you are not to be taken seriously — then why do you bother to post here, with nothing useful to contribute?
Silverhill you are right. To Kiwi-guy, I am truly sorry. I let anger and very poor judgment ruin an interesting banter. I have a hard time believing that people could be so cruel as to inflict that kind of pain, and what do i go and do? I use words as a weapon. I have no excuse. I will not post again.
You’re all gay
HA HA HA! Oh, Ronald – you’re such a wit. Really. You could write for TV, and call the program “They’re All Gay!” And, the funniest part would be a person (named Ronald) that says at the end “You’re all gay!”. An Emmy Award winner, definitely.
Accepted. And I am stupidly sorry I didn’t give you the chance to apologise, saying I would not read any more posts. (Once again, I suppose I’m human; this time, wanting to see my obituary.) My words went against my beliefs in free communication, trust me.
You are obviously someone with brain cells. Next time you are in NZ I will buy you a beer. (We have some pretty good ones here.)
I hope you are reading this.
PS – Ronald – you’re sad! SAD, SAD, SAD!!
PPS – Ronald. You are sad.
PPPS – Can we get a new DI?
this used to be such a friendly community…
i mean kudos on the apologizing and all but no articles for a while makes us all a little loopy
Agreed. But I have to say, as a first-time poster, I am so waiting with eager anticipation for when this community is again, back on its feet. I marvel in the intelligence, wit, and civility EVEN AMONG those that flame one another.
Tell me the last forum where, in a non-communal, non-moderated environment, two posters apologized to one another?
P.S. – I don’t care whether Radiatidon’s posts come from fiction, fact, experiences, or dreams. He’s one of many here that I simply can’t hold a candle to, and thus why I lurk – and enjoy it very much.
P.S.S. – I hope the community sticks it out – That book better be good, Alan!
That upset about “you’re all gay” really? really?
No, we’re just wondering why you decided to waste our time by posting something that you thought was insulting, without any data to back it up. (“Gay”, by the way, is not universally an insult.)
If you think that your disagreement is best voiced by attacking the sexuality of your readers, you only show how small-minded you really are. Get a life (and an education), dude.
Not too sure about my brain cells, but if I read the world clock correctly it is 7 hours later there (at least in Melbourne). Thanks to “W” and some bankers who shall remain pucker creases, the likelihood I’ll be able to make it Down Under is running the same odds as the chance of a snowball fight here in West Texas. However, midnight this Friday, I’ll crack a Corona to ya.
Tone it down Lesbian
Oh, Ronald – there you go again. Stop it, please! You’re killing me! I can hear the canned laughter every time you write!
PPPPS – ‘The Don’: We all have something to say. Forget my previous posts and keep writing.
Wow this site has just gone genius level
Don’t they have “social networking” site for this kind of banter?
Right , that’s it. I apologised and I still get hassled. I’m obviously not genius enough for this site.
Goodbye.
What part of NZ are you from kiwi guy?
Tauranga on my part.
Kiwi-guy, don’t let them get you down. I myself get slammed now and again. You have already proven yourself by apologizing, making you the better person than those that keep attacking you. That in itself proves that you are a valid and worthy individual who should keep posting. Part of what makes this community interesting is the many who post positive here.
I know that there are those who find my postings useless and mere dribble, so what. There are many here that enjoy some of what I write, as a good read be it fictional or factual. So I keep posting for those individuals benefit, as should you. I myself would find it a shame if you quit. As an individual who’s life experience is different than many here, your input could educate and help someone understand something that they would otherwise miss. Contrary to what you believe, aspects of anyone’s life is interesting. You have seen things none other has, met people many have not, done things unique to you. Boring? I think not!
So as the saying goes, “Like the water on a duck’s back, just let it slide off and keep on swimming!” So mon frère, I hope to see more of your postings in the future.
For what it is worth, I am sorry to have been the catalyst that sparked this defamatory flame war. To all involved I hope you will accept my apologies on this matter.
Peace
So I won’t seem pretentious I sign off thus…
-Don-
with all this abe lincoln talk, his 200th bday and all , hope they do a DI article on him
Ronald, this made me chuckle.
I found it to be particularly good comedy timing reflecting the immature attitude some of the people on this thread displayed. Maybe that wasn’t his intention but to get instantly offended by it (or anything) without making sure you understand someone clearly is short sighted at best.
I would love to read that, I know very little about him or the civil war. I would also be interesting to see what parallels, if any, can be drawn between him and the current U.S. president.
Also funny…
one observation of mine is that 200 years ago, heck, not even 40 years ago, being called “gay” would not have been offensive…and strangley enough, Mr Lincoln and most of his contemporaries used the “n-word” quite commonly. how he would have gotten his knuckles rapped today.
Jared glad you appreciated it, that was my intention. And Sachse niggardly and faggot (bundle of sticks) were both still fairly common in writing even in the 50’s
Haha. I hear what you are all saying, and it all makes sense from every perspective.
From what I read, and I only read the top 1/3 of the page because I’m limited on time, most of you guys seem to be trying to better yourselves by facing some problem in your life and, like all of us (except me,) you’re here to improve your life (I dont mean so you can deal with stuff, but so you can go to sleep thinking you’re a little smarter and you think of things on an elevated level.)
In my opinion, which of course I feel is 100% correct, the average person is indeed too close minded. But not in the same way you all think. Every day I wake up I’m glad of it. I’m glad I dont have to worry about what food I eat that day. I’m glad I can smoke a cigarette. There are people in this world who abuse their chidren. Who rape people. Who kill for pleasure. Maby they have it right on the ball, after all, evey way of man is right in his own eyes. But I feel our problems do not lie in the small things we do each day. I feel if you care what you look like you’re worried about the wrong fucking things. You’re lucky to be alive. If you want to be depressed, or “realistic” as you depressed people with hope try to look at your own lives, go for it. Tomarrow when I get cancer I’ll be happy I lived till I was 18 and could get it. I’m happy I’ve never been raped or abused or died in a swimming accident when I was 13. Have a positive outlook on your life, not because it’s false, but because it’s true. Because if you’re working a job in your mid 30’s and have a wife, your life is damn good. And damn you for thinking otherwise.
If you were 10 years old, swimming in a pool, and you gulped some water and are about to drowned.. and God showed up and said, “You are going to die in a second,” you would beg and beg and beg just to live until you were 15. You would be so grateful. But if you lived until you were 15 with no such experience, you would not be grateful to be alive.
Just be happy. Most of you have a life way better than anyone deserves, and you should see it that way.
Thank you KnuckleDeep for reminding us how precious life is and for urging us to be grateful about it. Surely if we were always in that state of mind, less greed and pain would plague our world. I would also like to mention that from this mindset flows all sorts of goodness. When we know and accept that we never will know exactly when our moment of death will arrive (except for those who take their own lives), then this can cause fear in some people, from which stems all sorts of behavioural problems, or, it can instil a sense of noble humility. A kind of humility that never lets you become a mean, sarcastic and cynical human being.
interesting. truth is stranger than fiction.
i believe it is true, especially in our modern world that many people are specialized in a certain task. very much so that they are grown into that job or service position, and it becomes who they are. so thats not very normal at all, its a dependence on technology, and adapting to yuor niche job. um so, they should get a life! who is more sane, the person that takes time off of work, to relax more, or the one that tries to keep up with competition, endlessly working and not spending time to relax or go on vacation. bill gates has a mild mental disorder. he is looked at as a god in our time. that says something. george w is kind of a weird funny guy, he is the president.
Carry on, folks… For good and/or ill, that’s no longer the case. The new guy, however, will have to learn quickly that rock-star-like popularity won’t be enough to handle the burdens!
I can’t wait for the Damn Interesting book to come out. Then I can read the book over and over and it will just be like reading this site and it’s constant rehash of articles.
Please can you guys post new stuff? This site was totally awesome and now it’s just shit. Sorry to be harsh, but it has to be said. I love the work you guys have done, but this site has really gone down hill.
zgeek
The hill has ended. The car is sitting on a flat surface now. The weeds are growing throughout the frame. The polar ice caps melt. The car becomes an artificial reef. Fast forward 3 billion years. An alien named Dorb creates a mind memory containing the Damn interesting book and it becomes a huge hit. Finally.
I pray daily for this site to revive. Alas.
What happened? Did you guys run out of damn interesting things to write about? I love this sight. I hope you post some new articles soon!
Nice!!!
While their content may not be as refined, or as well written as DI’s, The Straight Dope (www.straightdope.com) has been keeping me entertained as I wait for this site to revive.
Thanks Web, bookmarked and visited daily in the future
All considered, it is strange not to have an indication of any sort from the site’s owners as to their intentions; particularly as, if I understand correctly, contributors do have unpublished work pending. I would lament the loss of this forum and of its community.
Why not allow automated posting if time management is an issue? There are other sites which allow user moderators and community screening of submissions. For example, a new post could be displayed for a finite period and readers can vote for its ultimate inclusion or exclusion. Then when the time for evaluation elapses, the votes can be tallied and the article either permanently displayed or just deleted. That would still maintain quality and perhaps even breath new life into this enterprise where I suspect only the diehard few still bother to visit.
With comment threads like this, who needs articles?
That made me snort. Thanks.
Obviously I could never compete with the writing of this site, but mightyinteresting.com is still taking submissions of damn, mighty, and even mildly interesting articles. I started it in response to the unfortunate (and hopefully temporary) demise of this site. Only later did I realize how difficult it really is to keep a site like this updated! So please visit mightyinteresting.com for now, and come back to this much better site once the articles return!
I found the article at http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Cinema/3117/sociosmurf2.htm to be damn interesting. But that raises the question: How do you think Smurfette views herself, instead of the cold, hard reality?
Damn Interesting on Feburary 25, 2009 filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection. The owners said the Obama stimulus plan will allow DI to go to the library and find more interesting articles for the site.
Here you go, an idea for DI….
http://www.eliica.com/
This is true. The current stimulus plan only gives us enough to get to the library, however. We’re going to need at least another 30 billion to actually open the books.
Not my usual profession, but here goes:
“They’re All Gay”
Act 1, Scene 1
Ronald: “Honey, I’m home!”
{audience cheers}
Mrs Ronald: “Oh, hello darling”
{audience cheers}
Ronald trips over couch, drops briefcase
{laughter}
Ronald: “Who moved that couch?”
Mrs Ronald: “Why, Ronnie – it’s Wednesday – you know I have my
bookclub on Wednesdays, and I had to move the furniture”
Ronald: “Your bookclub? They’re all lesbians!”
{laughter}
Junior arrives home from school
{audience cheers}
Junior: “Hi Mom! Hi Dad!”
Ronald: {screams} “What’s that?”
Junior: “I’m your son, Junior”
{laughter}
Ronald: “No – what’s that in your ear?”
Junior: “Earwax?”
{laughter}
Ronald: “Come over here, son.”
{audience does worried “oooooooo”}
Ronald: {screams} “That’s an ear ring!”
Ronald rips the ear ring from ear, Junior screams in agony
Mrs Ronald: {to audience} “It’s a good job he doesn’t
know about the nipple rings and foreskin ring!”
{laughter}
A squeek comes from the closet door
Ronald: {screams} “Who’s in there?”
Voice from closet: “No-one!”
{laughter}
Ronald opens door, half-dressed man steps out
Ronald: “Who are you”
{audience does worried “oooooooo”}
Man: “I’m a friend of Mrs Ronald. I’m – um – the interior decorator”
Ronald: {screams} “An interior decorator? You’re all gay”
{laughter}
Ronald: “Well get some clothes on. It’s cold in February, don’t you know?”
{laughter}
Daughter arrives home from school
{audience cheers}
Daughter: “Hi Mom! Hi Dad!”
Daughter: {looks at man} “Hi Uncle Arthur”
{laughter}
Daughter takes off her hat, shows butch haircut
{audience does worried “oooooooo”}
Ronald: {points at haircut, screams} “What’s that?”
Daughter: “Dandruff?”
{laughter}
Ronald: “No, I mean the haircut”
Daughter: “Well, duh – it’s a haircut”
{laughter}
Ronald: {to audience} “They’re all gay!”
{laughter, cheering}
End of Scene 1
Quite a humorous response Mr. Putnam. No offense to you or your site dear sir. I am a loyal fan.
by the way #301, WOOT!
Being from Cincinnati I sometimes forget how easy it is to feel overqualified. I suppose it’s the big fish, little pond (or in this case, big fish, stupid little pond) syndrome. In regards to the above average majority I have to ask if we’re simply talking about quantity here or does the quality (or lack of quality) of intelligence, awareness, or downright dumbassness drag heavily on the bell-curve of whatever group you happen to focus upon. Personally, it scares the s… out me that the Raw-Fan-Nation wrestlin’ lovin’, git it boy segment of our little part of the world just might be the future of America. I mean, I don’t think of myself as a genius by any stretch, but just turn on the news for a while and it doesn’t take very long to feel better about yourself.
The irony of the top photo gets funnier every time I check for updates.
Hi, this is the internet calling…
Hello?
Guys, this site may be of interest to some of you, as it has similar aims to DI, but in a forum form: http://domebo.net/forum See, for example, the QA question on what would happen to a human if hit by an A-10 minigun shell, etc.
I’m afraid Damn Interesting is losing a lot of its regular readers and potential book buyers now that they have decided to stop posting for so long.
I’m sure this is correct, but I personally can’t help looking from time to time. I always think “this is the time!” I sure do hope they get things rolling here again…
I miss this site.
Hope it doesn’t become another Suck.com
SoxSweepAgain
Hehe showing your age a little there, i remember suck.com quite well, one of the first sites I visited daily in this manner.
I like this site too much to just assume it’s gone forever. So, Alan, et al, do what you need to do, you still have thousands of fans waiting.
Hey guys, are you ever gonna come back? How about that book? I gave you $100 for it, so I’d like to see that thing with my name in it eventually.
Yoweigh
Until that day, well all feel a little like the cops in this scene
http://www.killerclips.com/clip.php?id=70&qid=619
Brilliant!!
Yeah, I think I’m off too guys. See you in the funny pages…
You are “guilty” of wishful thinking which is the basis of your belief in the “Hereafter”, the “Father”, etc.
Check out this little video…not for those who are unthinkingly theistic, nor for the humor-impaired
There is absolutely no scientific proof that “God” exists. You can quote “your” bible and other, even pagan “religions”, can equally justify in their minds the existence of a supreme being/deity/Creator. But the harsh truth is that these aspirations derive from HOPE which has been translated into FAITH by organized religion. Atheists are not murderers by nature, realizing as they do their mortality in the strictest sense of the word. Indeed, they cherish their life and seek to live-and-let live; realizing that their Heaven is on Earth. It has often been said that more wars are conducted in the name of religion than any other cause, i.e., in the name of God. You can excuse this by human foibles but it is those same human characteristics that created “God” and the multiple religions that have, and still, create tensions between disparate cultures.
Jesus, post something or I’m deleting this website from my Favorites.
Fucking ridiculous.
I don’t think Jesus writes for Damn Interesting.
I can’t wait for the next one, we’re on like 2 months now eh?
And we’re sure they haven’t forgotten about us…
LAST!
LAST!..LAST!
“I don’t think Jesus writes for Damn Interesting.”
I think were more likely to see Jesus come back to earth before any new content.
And Im a fucking atheist!
lol
Last, apparently.
Bummer.
Not any more, you’re not.
I haven’t posted or looked at this site in months, and still nothing’s changed. I used to be a big fan, but I’m starting to lose my patience! I’d really like to see a new article, please. :)
I hope new content will arrive sometime…
mightyinteresting.com
haha, the last original article is from October 17th “In Soviet Russia, Lake Contaminates You”. That’s around 5 months ago! I doubt this is going to do any good for the book sales. Once/if the book ever comes out, this site might have lost most of its readers.
nice article bro.
Acai Berry
Thanks for the shameless link. It’s a decent start-up site that could get some good info now and again that’s not wiki-jacked. Also off there I found the Dark Roasted Blend site which is much like that and here too. At least I have something to keep busy with when bored at work now that this place is cobweb controlled sadly. I still check once a week, but I’m starting to wonder if the place is just dead for good or until the book hits whenever.
Lack of new articles here is one thing – they are free.
Lack of a book I (and many others) payed for, and not so much as a scrap of feedback as to what is going on – this is inexcusable.
Might be time to seek a Damned Refund.
This just sucked.
Not “sucked” as if you guys were still dedicated.
“Sucked” like suck.com sucked in abandoning its readers for no good reason.
Here’s the link t the book: http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Hand-Syndrome-Alan-Bellows/dp/0761152253/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238005337&sr=8-1
To those who ordered one, we haven’t forgotten … just can’t get anything done yet. We’re still trying to talk them in to a less silly cover.
Ah, they live! Jason, thanks for the update. You guys could do your readership a BIG favor if you just kept us “in the loop”. Yes, you guys communicated in the past once in a blue moon – but you know that old saying – you can’t UNDER communicate?
Well, here ’tis. Even a new article/post once every other week saying that you didn’t forget about everyone (like a line or two) would let people know that the site will be coming back eventually.
…. of course that assumes that you’re not hoping to make a mint on the book and then let the site collect dust – but you guys wouldn’t do that to us poor chaps, would ya?
See here: http://domebo.net/forum
The Rain Man is what came to my mind:)) I absolutely agree that what most people consider normal is not normal at all. For instance a certain experiment was made with the help of slow-motion photography which showed that the air is actually full of objects (flying objects) which the “normal” human eye does not see due to their high speed and unusual trajectories of flight. A man with Alzheimer disease or other disorders would be more likely to see such objects.
My wife is a psychiatrist, when she was a student I used to attend their practical training colloquiums in a research facility which was also a hospital. Very soon to my disappointment I realized that modern psychiatry is mainly just a system of measures against symptoms of disorders and diseases by means of drugs and chemicals. It does not seem to bother about the real roots of the disease and it’s consequences. I lost all interest in it. Milton Erickson, an outstanding American physician used hypnotherapy instead of drugs and the results were immediate and permanent. For every patient he chose an individual type of therapy. His unique method of hypnotizing starts always with going back in time to the roots of the disease, having found which he solves the problem individually for every patient. Modern psychiatry does not see something very obvious: curing symptoms does not solve the problem of the disease; every patient is an individual case, and the approach must based on that.
The amazon.com page for the book says this site gets 400,000 unique hits a month. I wonder what the number is now.
The Alzheimer disease is almost always the cause for mental debility and loss of spatial orientation. Spatial orientation is fully controlled by our perceptive apparatus i e visual perception is involved. Moreover, tests were made and show the patients’ inability to draw objects. Why did I propose that the density of their sight is slowed down?
Of course we can not see with their eyes.
But here is one fact. When the patient tries to walk – he makes several short steps before he starts. This makes me think that the frequency of the picture they see is also slowed down. It is as if I was watching TV and suddenly started to notice that the changing picture consists of separate masked shots.
Sorry, Silverhill, I forgot the flying objects. As far as I know they are either piloted or remotely controlled (small elongated zonds with a spiral moving wing, which looks like the flippers of a shark ray and work on a similar principal). Although they are controlled they have a pretty smart brain of their own which makes them look almost alive.
I think I could send a recorded video, or a link to it, but I’m not sure if I’m observed or not right now.
????
The DI boys take a break and all sorts of crazy comes flying at you.
That is… DI… I’d certainly like to see a link, if you have a safe moment.
Gee it’s comforting to know this site is not abandoned by everyone. Do you know how the publishing business is?
I wanted to pause a question: does Canada have any deep underground NATO bases or probably such info had been published during the last several months? Maybe Silverhill knows?
To be fair: I know a similar Soviet built object in Moscow. It can provide autonomous 3 -year existence of 150 000 people and is accessible through the subway tunnels.
“Despite rumors to the contrary, we will be back as soon as we are able.”
I call BULL$HIT on that one.
I dug out something, I guess this URL is reachable for you, Mirage. The bird, and many other surprises in this vid
http://rutube.ru/tracks/1129683.html?v=b3d10554e96c0d8f21b0b6357ddd4718
Another bird which defended Eagypt from US and Israel.
http://rutube.ru/tracks/347047.html?v=95fcfa83774ab49983ba6ef77114b696
A bird with wings positioned beyond fuselage? I am a poor ornitologist, but as far as I know no prehistoric bird had such skeleton..
alex212, if by “the flying objects” you’re talking about those weird “Rods” (also dubbed “creatures from the 4th dimension) that fly around on home-shot videos around the world, they are actually just moths, not “Rods”. I saw a History Channel special about these things. They used a high speed and regular camera next to each other in a back yard facing a digital timer (to ensure that they would be looking at the same “flying object”). The crazy “Rods” that look like really long centipedes with wings were found on the regular video camera, but were only moths on the high-speed video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5pMsrlhAYo pictures of “Rods.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEurk1JPo-w explanation.
I never even saw this vid. Interesting what a camera can create. But I mean tube-like and circular objects, not fake moths.
A story: space lies.
It was not Gagarin who first reached the orbit. Shigorin… Medkoff… Gagarin was the first to return. But a dreadly fate overcame his predecessors and natives. Their dying cries for help were recorded by several enthusiasts.
Yes, I can reach the URL, but regrettably my russian is “a bit rusty” (i.e. I know only a handful words beyond “Da” and “prawda”). Thus I can’t really tell what the people in the report are talking about or even who they are. All I see are some airplane miniatures that could be from a Kinder Surprise Egg for all I know. Those are morphed in computer animations into various military airplanes to which they previously bore little resemblance. (The producers seem to like computer animations a lot. You can show anything with computer animations. You could even morph a fruit knife into an aircraft carrier…)
Regarding the second video, it seems to show various airplanes of several aeras, the oldest seem to be WWII, but some are more modern. Beyond that I have no idea what the film is about. To my knowledge Egypt has never been at war with the US, so your comment is a bit unclear to me…
12 ghosts, some are still on Earth orbit, some haunt Venus. Gagarin only followed them.
I have never coma accros this site before but thank stumbleupon I have.. what an article!
Im somewhat confised by the acticle while at the same time I think I getexactly what you mean. I like to think of life like this:
Everything is okay in the end. If it’s not okay, it’s not the end.
I think that pretty much sums me up. I have never understood depressed people until today (April fools of all days! :p ) but wow, this article helps. You have to ‘alwyas look on the bright side of life’ to survive.. no matter what. Laugh about death, see the good things in everything. Its hard to explain but if you do.. you feel you /can/ achieve anything. And I mean, I really believe I can. But you still have to have the balance between an optimistic view of life and a realistic one. If you can crack that, then thats when you can succeed (I can achieve anything I want, but only if what I want is realistic.. Im unlikely to one day buy out Microsoft btu realisticly I can believe I will make myself £1million. When I get there, I can realisticly aim to make £2million.) And dont forget once you have that optimistic/realistic view.. you have to MAKE it happen. It wont happen on its own!
I also like to think that nothing in life was ever a waste of time. If I hadnt done it I would never have been exactly where I am now. And if something is going bad then if it hadnt have happened, well in a years time or whatever when things are looking up, again I wouldnt be there then.
Im only young and thankfully have realised this early on, and hope I can use my view on life I stated above to help me do anythng I want in life. I like to try and show people the same thing too. If someone is feeling down I help them see that the light at the end of the tunnel isnt just an oncoming train.
I dont know what else to say but I’m sure I could say a lot. Just if everyone can find that little bit in between where they can have an optomistic view of things while being realistic. then well all be happy. But remember to thikn about what you DO have and be content. It would be nice to make that £1million but if I fail then maybe dropping the bar a little is th eonly way to keep my view realistic at the same time as being optomistic.
Its hard to explain but its all summed up in this – Positive Mental Attitude. Keep a good PMA and see the good in everything and even if you fail you will be happy.
Over and out ;)
April Fools! Damn Interesting has only been down so long as an extended AF joke!
…Right?
Por supuesto.
Either alex is some kind of troll, or he is actually crazy.. I’m honestly confused as to which it is.
To Silverhill
You said:Provide accessible, credible documentation. (Google, for instance, turns up nothing
Forgive my ignorance, but the worldwide web had been from the start a US military project. Most anything you will find is either brainwashed or not available. If you want to know the truth, then Inernet is the wrong place to address.
Nevertheless I will do my best to give you the evidence you need.
If you don’t believe in the invisible, see this vid. The second part especially. It was a leak.
http://video.online.ua/63647/
Yup, he’s insane for sure, reaaaal nut job.
What is clear as day might one day prove to be a trap. Doubt everything you know as realness, it’s the only way to find out something..
Completely bonkers.
YUP
Incertus animus dimidium sapientiae est. Si vera narretis, non opus sit testibus.
Still, explain one simple fact, and maybe all will clarify: Why does an Antarctic expedition involve a whole battle squadron? What for? Who is it supposed to fight?
Penguins
What the hell are you even talking about? You keep bringing up utterly random points, in reference to nothing, and those videos of yours make so sense in regards to what you’re saying, and none of this is helped by your poor english. You’re either a very good troll, or you need to seek professional help. What expedition? What battle squadron? What the HELL are you even talking about?!
^^^ no* sense
talking about poor english :P
To Silverhill and Karma cop
The evidence you insist on having we find in the Third Reich. Starting from 1936 the Annenerbe is abnormally attracted by the Antarctic. The war in Europe is about to begin, but Fuhrer ivests collossal sums in the exploration of the Antarctic. This tendency arose after his first expeditions to Tibet brought results. Hitler, by the beginning of the War already had pegged an area equivalent to the square area of Germany on the surface of the Antarctic. It has a name. New Schwabia. ;) Should I continue?
http://video.qip.ru/video/view/?id=v58906348d5
The chronicles this video contains might prove sufficient. The people speaking are the brass of our Navy Intelligence. Does this seem like a trick I’m playing on you?
Do you realise that this is an english website? Thus very few would be able to understand russian..
For the sake of argument, let’s say you’re sane and a reasonable, normal person, what is your point about this interest in antarctica, and what the hell does it have to do with any of your previous points?
If you probably heard anything of the Worm Portals Theory, it is supposed that a Worm Portal leading into the Vega area of the cosmic space lies between the poles of Earth.
What I am leading at is the fact that Annenerbe psy-corpus had a 5-th level contact with external (alien),{the Taurus constellation}, and sea-based civilizations on Earth. The result was the acquisition of a technological solution to build a spaceship with unique anti-gravity and speed flying characteristics.
You’re clearly insane, please seek help.
The above mentioned technological solution is the keystone of this mystery. It is up to now the reason for withholding the real facts about the Antarctic expedition by the CIS.
Commonwealth of Independent States is what I assume you’re referring to. I honestly don’t know why I’m replying.. but.. why the hell would this Russian CIS release information about Nazi’s travelling to the arctic to.. I don’t even know, get anti gravity technology from aliens? I’m not going to bother replying anymore Alex212, because you are insane. Did you read that? INSANE! Oh and the irony of me saying that in the comments of this particular article..
alex212: (I apologize up front, this isn’t very nice of me)
Please leave whatever cult you may have attached yourself to. The man wearing a track suit and tennis shoes, mixing up kool-aid, is not looking out for your best interests. You have been misled and (in your ignorance of the rational) you have eaten it up. You are following a false religion.
Seek help, stop polluting the world with your thoughts. It’s all about quality, not quantity.
By the way, I work for the government. (not really— I just enjoy taking cheap shots at unstable psyches)
He is talking about something he brought up in another thread.
See: https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=449
On second thought, don’t. He doesn’t make any more sense there than he does here.
It sounds like he found some kind of random-nonsense generator on the internet. I’ve seen similar postings from people who find an “essay generator” that rambles off a bunch of smart-speak, for lack of a better term. Just ignore him.
According to Alexa, about 66,000 and falling. What a Damn Shame. Although I guess I can’t complain because, after all, the site is free.
Wow komrade alex there has gone off the deep end. Nazis, the antarctic, worm holes to vega, the internet being a us military project to start (it’s precursor was), and the rest. This has to be the largest pile of crazy I’ve seen conjoined in one location out of one source in a good little while and I’m impressed. All we need now is a comet, an expensive house, and $2 in Kool-Aid with $20 in rat poison and we got a plan. But to be fair, we can have alex test it first. :)
Seems to me though the ratings could be the indication of some burnt braincells off some bad bathtub vodka. Either way I just wish this place would get a real update sooner than later, and that those idiots at the publishing house would just get a nicer cover as I want to read that damn book and see some normalicy returned here already. I miss the good posts and then the entire 2nd subjects worth an equal amount of attention somehow The Don always seems to pull out of his ass as they’re fascinating bits of damn interesting stuff too.
Mind you, gentlemen, I am not a TROLL and am by all means sane. The only thing I meant was to share genuine information and my point of view on the matter with you.
Yes, you are angry.
Yes, the project still has a Top Secret mark on it and all the facts you lack are still a priority of the US Intelligence.
Yes, the point of the operation “High Jump” was to destroy a Nazi submarine base and capture scientists and their achievements.
No, I do not mean to persuade anyone here of my understanding and my point of view. I meant to share with you the conclusions of our Navy Intelligence Investigations Board which became legal just recently.
And No it’s not a prank. It’s facts. And it’s about the decompression of knowledge. Knowledge that is, I believe, vital now. Because the world is on the brink of a VERY REAL catastrophy.
Theories that could turn the minds of people, their understanding of their REAL place in the history of this world and their relations to OTHER worlds and forms of life. I am inclined to believe that if the things you laughed at were known to the whole world community, we would never have EVEN DREAMT of the economic crisis and WOULD NEVER HAVE STOOD ON THE BRINK OF AN END TO EVERYTHING. Somebody wants us to be where we are. It is all about selfish and unhumane interests of a small group of fools.
That was my only and only motive to tell you what I know and believe to be THE REALITY.
I look for answers in the past, because there lies the only way to RE- understand it all.
Arguments like “He’s nuts” and “a troll” I quite expected. But I do not regret having shared with you my vision and understanding of this world. What I hope is that some of you do have open minds for a different, maybe a too different opinion. Only this is not the time and place for you to leave the room for it. That is the only thing I regret.
I found out something today. Our president ordered a new limousine. The only nameworthy thing bout it – it’s to endure a nuclear impact.
Thank you for the nice moments and thank you for your time. I am in no way opposed to your understanding the events we discussed.
I hope to meet you at this site again.
hope the limo gets delivered before 12/21/12 right?
Post some new content……you won’t………
alex212, please shut up you crazy bastard.
alex212, you mentioned open mindedness. I thought you and actually others here, might find this video interesting. It deals with open mindedness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI
I’m sorry, DI. I’ll miss you…
All comments and no articles makes Jack a dull boy – lol
Thanks Feretro, I’ve been very puzzled by these ‘Rod’ videos, and had not seen any coherent explanation until now, thanks very much. Not being much interested in photography it did not occur to me that it was simply a result of film speed. Doooh!
As for there not being any new articles posted on DI in a while I have a theory. It really wouldn’t make sense to publish a book that just contains articles that are already all published no this web site. In fact I would expect the publisher wants the majority of the articles to have NOT appeared here. Therefore I would expect Alan is directing all new articles to the book, and the site is suffering a drought as a result.
Just my theory. If I’m right then opnce the book is out there will be a flood of new articles. Cross fingers.
Simply Brilliant!!
This makes sense to me. I love this site and the articles which used to come pretty much regularly. Thanks, antidmguy, for giving me hope.
Don’t mention it; I’m always interested by crazy sci-fi stuff like that, so I’m glad that others care as much about it as I do.
come back damn interesting, please come back….. or at least tell us whats going on
Damn Interesting has left me, just like everyone else in my life… :(
Am I doomed to be rejected by everything I love?!
I can’t tell exactly what it is that most of us like the most in here: the articles or posting.
Opinions?
In the old days, it was certainly “BOTH” for me. Unfortunately I finally de-lurked only AFTER things went to cow dung though….
I fine it distressing of no new wordage being added for interesting commentator observations. Damn Interesting has the smell of a well used sock, stuffed in the corner – forgotten.
We seem to be missing a lot of the good commentators also. Even the very verbose Radiatidon seems to be missing. Does anyone know if he posts somewhere else?
Interesting bloke.
Is this site done or what???? I loved this site..I would have even put up with ads on it….but it seems like it’s been killed off….or at least in a coma.
Can’t we get a little update on what is going on? A small new article about the state of DI? Is that too much to ask???
Jeff – That’s what I don’t understand. You imagine the goodwill they would garner if they just posted articles on where the site was headed, how the book is doing – heck they could blog about their freaking publishing experience, and we’d probably eat it up – for a while anyway…..
Ah well, the picture at the top of this article speaks VOLUMES….
WTF guys, I want my $100 back.
Will the last one to log off this site please turn off the lights?
400! Not 300 but 400!. And still nothing new. Hope something happens soon. Not so found of static web pages.
Seeing as it’s been, by my count, 173 days since the last new article and 138 days since the last update regarding the status of the site, I’d say it’s time for all the hopefuls to pack it in.
The glass is still half full. I’m a realistic optimist, but for this page i’m willing to give up the realist part.
Damn Interesting, Goodnight sweet prince, you will be missed.
Alan Bellows died in a car collision outside of Albuquerque NM, on September 8, 2008.
He was there attending a conference with NetBSD.
Proof or it didn’t happen. I’m going to go ahead and say it didn’t happen.
Do you have a link to that news article? (It’s strange that Jason Bellows made no mention of this in his post #332, in this thread.)
(plum13sec, the above is on the supposition that you are not simply pulling a cruel/sick prank.)
Silverhill – It appears plum13sec is pulling a cruel/sick prank. I was so freaked out by that statement, I googled around – and it appears Alan has a twitter account.
While normally one’s identity isn’t able to be positively confirmed, he talks about DI on there.
https://twitter.com/AlanBellows
And he last posted on March 30th. So, obviously it could be someone else posting using his account, I highly doubt it.
You see, this is why rumors are so dangerous. Alan isn’t dead.
He’s simply transformed into a large lobster-like creature and is busy scouring the ocean floor for morsels of food.
Damn bastards,
I guess one day or another you would have found out, so here goes nothing. Last fall, I underwent gene therapy to help me cure an acute bout of insomnia, caused by writer’s block. Little did I know, I was transduced with the cytosine deaminase (CD) black bear gene into my hypocampus cells. This gene regulates the circadian rythm of all mammals. However, the doctors working on making me sleep better neglected to evaluate all the possible side effects for this procedure. Long story short: I went into hibernation for 6 damn months. Feed me.
Shit. I wish he would have mentioned that when I lunched with him today. I didn’t think he was dead, but he did look pretty terrible …
Hello!
Why bother writing when I can mellow?
I’m quite a fellow.
All that is going on at Damninteresting strongly resembles some kind of a psychological experiment. Damn could it be anything else?
“All that is going on at Damninteresting strongly resembles some kind of a psychological experiment”
Hmm you could be onto something here..
“Lets launch an addictive website then just abandon it at its peak”
Oh wait, Suck.com did that 10 years ago
I thought this http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/29895153/ topic was just a bit interesting. But it has the potential to be damn interesting.
Das ist interesrting, colleagues, herr Mirage
# D.N. Page and K.S. Thorne, “Disk Accretion onto a Black Hole. I. Time-Averaged Structure of Accretion Disk,” Astrophysical Journal, 191, 499-506 (1974).
# K.S. Thorne, “Disk Accretion onto a Black Hole. II. Evolution of the Hole,” Astrophysical Journal, 191, 507-519(1974).
# K.S. Thorne, “How to Test Gravitation Theories by Means of Gravitational-Wave Measurements,” in Colloque Internation aux C.N.R.S. No. 220, “Ondes et Radiations Gravitationelles,” (Institut Henri Poincare, Paris, 1974), pp. 214-223.
# K.S. Thorne and R.H. Price, “Cygnus X-1: An Interpretation of the Spectrum and its Variability,” Astrophysical Journal, 195, L101-L105 (1975).
# K.S. Thorne and A.N. Zytkow, “Red Giants and Supergiants with Degenerate Neutron Cores,” Astrophysical Journal, 199, L19-L24 (1975).
I found the book Damninteresting, the introduction by A. Einstein
CHARLES HAPGOOD
EARTH’S SHIFTING CRUST: A KEY TO SOME BASIC PROBLEMS OF EARTH SCIENCE Pantheon, 1958 LC# QE 511 H415
The map itself (mentioned in the book –see below) is one of the facts which show that modern official science lacks (or denies which is more plausible) a huge piece of basic knowledge. What is this piece? And why is it so expressly denied?
Att: Jason Bellows
I disliked very much this black joke about the car accident. But a joke which discribes an event which never occurred automatically becomes a joke which discribes an event as a potential possibility. Taking into consideration all possible themes of a joke, ….. I don’t like my way of thinking.. Please be careful driving your car. I’m serious.
Well, i suppose since DI has given me hours upon hours of quality reading and entertainment, without asking anything in return, i suppose its only fair that I oblige them with a little patience. Looking forward to the book!
Your past excellence makes up for your recent failures! Right #420? Is it 4:20pm there or something? Smoke another one.
It it calms your concern, Alan and I are both motorcyclists.
Ha! When U-530 expressed their disdain for the “deadly car accident” prank, I mistook the term “black joke” as an indication of a racial slur in some previous writing. I cleared all that up, however, by finding the source. Ambiguity is the English language’s weakest, and strongest, point.
At any rate, it’s uncanny how often I check back for updates, knowing that the chance of a new article is slim to none, and yet I can’t resist.
It reminds me of a Jack London short story, “Love of Life”, about a guy who was lost and starving in the Alaskan tundra, dragging his dying carcass along in the hope that he would reach the “cache at the river Dease”, where there were cartridges for his rifle. As the man lost his marbles from starvation, he would hallucinate that there was still a round in the chamber of the rifle, a hallucination that would nag him until he opened the rifle to re-convince himself that it was empty. You can read the whole thing here: http://london.sonoma.edu/Writings/LoveLife/life.html
well if you read the time it was 7:07 am when that was written, genius. And i wouldnt call not writing free articles for ingrateful people’s enjoyment failure :) But anyway that was a pretty good attempt to use my comment # to imply i was baked at the time… i guess.
Here is my cognitive bias:
a) I’m invisible–but only when no one is looking.
b) By finally registering and posting a comment I can force a reaction where DI starts posting new articles.
c) New articles will be posted any day now.
How is that for applied knowledge!
Dead site.
This is a dead site. That sucks.com
3 months in and still nothing new. :( This used to be a weekly entertainment source.
One wonders how “depressive reality” should be applied to the current financial meltdown in the US.
I’ve oft been criticized in financial forums for dredging up “doom n’ gloom” prognostications regarding the US economy. Impending inflation. The US Treasury bubble. Overt manipulation of the precious metals markets. Lack of confidence in the administration. Fire and brimstone stuff, most of it.
However (and I agree with this point to a limited extent) ‘confidence’ is by all means necessary for a capitalist economy to function. Investors and businesses cannot conduct their business effectively while knowing that the national currency verges on collapse as early as FY2010. Uncle Sam’s debt problems, unfunded liabilities (including Medicaid and Social Security), and worsening demographics simply _cannot_ play into a system where investors expect that the bubble will never burst, despite the high likelihood of systemic meltdown.
In such a case, is the “depressive reality” helpful or not? Does clinging to the belief that the system will recover worsen the downfall and prevent people from making prudent decisions, or is it the Hail-Mary pass that saves the system from imploding (i.e. run on the banks, complete international desertion of the US dollar, force majeur, etc.)?
I’ve always erred on the side of being a dour, doom n’ gloom type individual… truth at all costs kind of thing. But there is something to be said that doom n’ gloom can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Jason nice one there earlier in April 9th. If you’re going to post and it’s not a story on the main page saying ‘we are alive and the publisher is being wacko with the cover’ at least you can joke about death.
Seriously though I think a lot of this stupidity would be well contained if you made one solitary openly modable post(by staff) where you can just keep updates there and contain all the posters comments within there instead of junking up this old article. Just a suggestion.
I think hes seeing how soon we can hit 1000 comments. At this rate, forever.
come back damn website!
I should think the fact that many commenters’ requests for any assurance that the site is not dead have gone unanswered would be a big fat hint.
Man, I miss this site.
DI: may you rest in peace
He had to bite the snake to survive.
Mr Ben Nyaumbe was alone on the farm where he has been manager for 10 years, the workers having retired for the day.
Read the rest:
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/560504/-/item/0/-/ad6oaoz/-/index.html
Damn interesting too.
Heck, someone had to liven this site up.
Alan, Just put up a new post saying Hi.
You can reset the comment count that way and just make this an open comments thread.
Or some of you could post some interesting comments about interesting things in the spirit of this site’s name like I just did.
First.
LOL
439th? :(
Damn Interesting indeed!
Even though there hasn’t been a new article since last October it’s good to know that I can visit the site for some DI facts and stories!
I suggest we spam this baby back to life. Spam is the defibrillator of the internet.
Spam
First to the 1000th comment wins.
Spam
Spam.
Semi-Processed Artificial Meat.
Spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam.
Enter your reply text here.
Boring.
http://www.shaunryan.co.nz/
OK this has got silly now.
I can see what is happening here, and I know what you’ve all got to do…
Allen and the fellows at DI are waiting for an opportunist to come up with a comment that for all intentional purposes will act just like an article. it will be DI, and trigger lots of comments and responses.
So all you aspirational DI readers, get started on that article you know is inside you. Once someone has written something DI, we can all go back to what we were doing before. I can go back to lurking in the background, like I did in the old days before DI forgot about us.
d
Here is my Antarctic experience:
I was on the night watch. Naturally I felt sleepy. We were about 400 miles from the coast of the Antarctic.
The speed was 40knots, depth 300.
The scanner showed a moving object appear some 120 meters to our left, all of a sudden. I did not see it approach. The object was a tube-like form but I could not believe my eyes: It was 800 meters long -2 times bigger than our sub. (some 20 meters in diameter).
The distance was critical, but suddenly I realized that I could not move (physically). I felt some soothing and anastesy-like vibrations pierce my very soul.
I’m telling you: I was paralyzed. Should it attack us, we had no chance.
Then it started to move. I did not, could not, sense the time. But I guess it was gone in seconds.
Nothing on the screen. I spoke to my mate, and we decided it would be better not to report about this incident.
Hm, maybe Mirage has an idea of what I damn saw down there. To me, since I’ve a practical mind, It was pretty hard to give a reasonable explanation to this late-night fleeting encounter…
Huh?
How should I know? What I know about submarines, I know from reading “The Hunt for Red October”…
Some kind of Really, REALLY long fish with some sort of active sonar or infrasound ability? Maybe it was checking out your sub as a potential mate, and when it didn’t respond to it’s call, it moved off in search of other really big fish… (“plenty of other fish in the sea…” ^_^ ).
So the site is officially dead or what?
Do you guys need more volunteers to handle the logistics or what?
Subtribune Logistica Rufus Scipio reporting, sir!
I guess we will find out what happens on 29-jul-2009 when this domain expires.
I don’t think they’re going to do that. The fact that the book references the website (if I recall) says that they aren’t going to do that. Actually, I bet that it gets a nice clean scrubbing prior to the book coming out (along with a domain renewal). A nice db crash or additional Russian hackers would do quite nicely… causing the “damn dead” queries to vanish!
First!
I can’t believe that only one person could come up with a post worthy of the title Damned Interesting.
At least someone commented on my post here. That is encouraging.
Here is my true tale from two days ago, plus some commentary about life in the Country.
I was out in my front yard jungle (Really) picking up and sorting potting containers that I had saved to start some new plants. (I say Jungle, because I live on a 16.5+- Ac plot of Large trees, Yupon, and Bull and Green Briars. We don’t have to mow the front yard because there is no grass. That was the plan.)
I looked down and there was a coiled Copperhead snake within a couple of inches of my foot. I would have never seen it except for the fact that it started wagging it’s tounge at me. I retreated to the front porch and retrieved my trusty long handled branch loppers and went back to do a beheading. I Knew exactly where it was before I left, but I stood there looking intently and nervously for a couple minutes and could not see the snake. It finally moved it’s head and I saw it. It had visually disappeared into the Oak leaves under it only a few inches away. I slipped the lopper’s jaws around what I could get to and put it down a small distance away. The snake was not pleased. It still lost it’s head.
One of my first encounters with them involved my 12 GA pump shotgun and about 5 rounds. (Wife claimed ten, but who keeps count). After all there were at least five there.
We bought this land in 1993. We moved here December 1999. Since then I have Killed about 200 Copperheads. No shotgun for most of them, the machette works just fine. I don’t get heart palpitations when I find one now, but I fear that I will miss detecting one and it will strike me. They can leave you in the hospital for a while and the bite site can have a loss of muscle tissue that doesn’t re-grow. So I HATE Copperheads.
One of our other poisonous snake is the Coral snake. Their poison is as dangerous as the Cobra, to which they are related. The difference is that they are not aggressive, and they always flee if confronted (disturbed). I was terrified of them for a while, and they were killed on sight when we came out here. Now I just let them alone. They can’t harm you unless you grab one and pick it up. They don’t like that! Their fangs ar well back in their mouths and they would have to chew on a finger or such to hurt you. They eat rodents and baby Copperheads…Justice.
The last one is the Water Moccasin or Cotton Mouth. I have seen only a couple in my life, and believe me you will leave them alone. They are very aggressive, and will “display” their mouths and fangs even to passing cars. I think we still have a really old one at our part time creek, but I haven’t seen that one in a few years.
Our good snakes are here too. My favorite is our 8′ Texas Rat Snake. I have picked him (her) up off of the driveway a couple of times to avoid running over it. They will bite you if you squeeze them, because you are squeezing their hearts and it hurts. I pick this old guy up and he twines around my arm and fingers until I get him to some small branches, and then he is gone. We also have the green tree snakes, Hog nose snakes, and those small plain brown snakes that are so small that you can miss them.
We also love birds You can see some of our Photos at http://cabinwood.blogspot.com/index.html
Click on older posts to see the Texas Rat snake and pix of our jungle.(You will have to bore down a ways)
Comments are always welcome.
LAST!
No connection to the topic, just another ramble… ;)
Get out of Jail Free
Five simple words creating an interesting phrase on a piece of cardboard from a game of basic money-grubbing greed. Monopoly, grab a thimble, wheelbarrow, or top hat and make your fortune. For a select few, they were fortunate to get this game in a care package.
World War II, nations were torn asunder as greed, ethnic cleansing, and inhumanity spread a foul shroud over the landscape. All in all, just another dark period in mankind’s injustice to his own as entire populations were exterminated to appease the corrupted ideals of a few.
Just as this war exposed the raw underbelly of humanity, thus did it also bring out the greater light of many, from heroics to masterful ideas and inventions.
POW camps dotted the landscape, filled with Allied troops. Escaping from stalags was a risky and dangerous endeavor. Far behind enemy lines, you couldn’t just ask anyone for directions. Just whom could you trust?
Maps are wonderful for directions. With unique details like mountains, waterways, towns, and roadways drawn out on them. Somewhat safe roads or paths could be marked; people friendly to you could be indicated. Marvelous indeed, but those pesky enemy troops were always taking away such essentials for travel like maps, money, and compasses before checking you in. Nor would they provide you with any, no matter how politely you asked. Plus should you somehow acquire one, it was near impossible to fold one without alerting anyone within earshot. Which generally awarded you with them taking away your newly acquired map plus a short vacation in the local sauna. Solitary confinement, hotboxes, or hellholes were other names for them.
Knowing the plight of Allied POWs, Christopher Clayton-Hutton of the British Secret Service, not the MI-5 that most people are aware of thanks to James and his cool gadgets. No he was part of MI-9 a different sector of Royal Intelligence. Anyway he heard how a local game maker in England had perfected printing on silk. So Christopher approached John Waddington about making silk maps for the war effort. Unlike paper, silk maps were water resilient, quiet when folding, (heck you could just wad them up and still read them), and pack them into very small areas, like say a hollowed out button. This was a most fortunate meeting. During the discussion it was brought up how these maps and other tools could be hidden so that should the individual get captured the enemy would not find the map. Hollowed out heels on boots, secret compartments in watches, even buttons with compasses.
But what of those already captured. How could they get these to them? John had an idea. He was licensed to produce the popular board game of Monopoly. Due to the monotonous life of a POW, prison guards were only too happy if the CARE packages included card or board games. Better to have prisoners engaged in play rather than… well lets just say it made the guard’s job easier.
At John Waddinton’s factory, a select group of artists were relocated into a locked room. No one else at the plant knew what was going on behind those doors. Sworn to utmost secrecy, these people took existing Monopoly games and modified them. Special niches were carved into the game box; certain minute changes were performed on the game board and game cards. Because of the war metal was at a premium, so the game tokens had been replace with wood pegs and cardstock representing the boot, horse, and other pieces. These were hollowed out. Even the hotels and houses were hollowed out. Into these were inserted the silk maps and compasses then sealed with a wood plug. In this special edition there was even a two-piece file included, but not the cake.
Next a false charity front was created to “Gift” the Monopoly games to the Red Cross. Special care was taken so that each game contained only the maps for the camp that they were sent to.
Finally there was the extra in these special edition games that people worldwide have joked about since the conception. Hidden within the bundles of play Monopoly money were actual German Marks, Italian Lira, and French Francs. Instead of play money, this was actual cash that could be used to bribe those all so difficult guards or other officials. It could also be used on the way to purchase food or even train tickets (official travel papers not included).
So Allied troops were briefed about the Special War Time Edition of that all so popular board game, Monopoly. This was the “to die for” gift that every POW would love to get their hands on. But wait; there was a catch, isn’t there always one? Only certain games, with a special red dot at Free Parking was a winning game.
So thanks to some British ingenuity, a popular American board game, and The Red Cross sending the gift that keeps on giving, WWII capture Allied soldiers who were “Sent Directly to Jail – Do Not Pass Go – Do Not Collect $ – £ – ₣ – ¥ – etc.” were allowed to collect a boodle of cash at Free Parking (with the red dot), used their Get Out Of Jail Free card, and jogged cross country with their Special Edition Monopoly silk map, compass, and two-piece screw together metal file.
Unfortunately this gallant effort went unknown until declassified in 2007 in which all involved were recognized and awarded for their efforts. The British Government wanted to keep this card in the deck until needed, as many do with the Get Out of Jail Free card. Just in case another war broke out. All Special Edition Monopoly sets were destroyed after the war. Anyone who worked on or knew about this was sworn to utmost secrecy.
So next time you slip that Get Out of Jail Free card under your side of the board, remember how that card gave hope to those facing a grim future.
Follow this link to see examples of the WWII silk maps — http://www.mapforum.com/04/escape.htm
Don
DI Don…well done
oh yeah…(might as well)….NUMBER ONE!!!!
sorry , I mean, FIRST!!!
They’re all “good” snakes, performing an important predatory function in the environment. “Good” seems to mean, to you, “non-venomous”, but recall that any of them will bite you if they can–defensively, at least–if they feel threatened. And the bite of even a non-venomous snake can be of concern; think infection.
Silverhill, I did say that Coral Snakes are on my good side. Did I mention that they are verry poisonous?
Actually, I have been bitten by non poisonous snakes many times in the last 50 years or so. My best bud and I used to wade down Clear Creek at night with a carbide lantern and grab Diamond back water snakes to sell to the Zoo. I seem to remember that we got about $20 per pound back then. Those snakes are vicious. We both would be all scratched up, but good old soap and water plus Iodine worked to stave off infection. Now we have Betadine .
BTW, my jungle was not planned. It was here for 60 years or more before I bought it. I just let as much of it remain as-is for the wildlife. We have everything from armadillos to rats. We regularly see deer, ‘possums, raccoons, and even a Grey Fox the other day. The raccoons think they are our outside cats. They love the people and cat food leftovers.
There are only two American poisonous snakes that I don’t like. Copperheads, because they will bite you without warning. I have their local population under control, and in 16+ AC I know that there are many thousands more. They don’t move far from their usual places unless you clear land. The second is the Rattle snake. Usually they will warn you, but that is not always true. The Diamondback can grow to HUGE lengths and will strike up to 6 Ft. They are not hide and wait snakes like the Copperhead. There are a few places that poisonous reptiles don’t need to be. First, my front yard. Next, inside my house. Also Airplanes aren’t a good place for Coperheads either.
Nice job on the substitute articles guys. Keeps the site going while whatever is going on in the background to prevent any official updates plays itself out.
Call me optimistic (ironic considering the subject matter of this final (official) article), but I have a certain amount of hope that Alan & Co. are dealing with whatever it is, and the site will be back to it’s usual DI self soon. In the mean-time keep the contributions and discussion coming…
Great article Don. Its great to have readers passionate about keeping DI alive. Keep it up people. :)
Thanks Don, great article indeed. Truly bookworthy. And thanks Marc for you addition as well. You are more gracious with the snakes than I would be, LOL.
Hey Marc I just checked on Wikipedia to confirm (what a reputable source I know…) but copperheads and water mocassins are the same snake, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agkistrodon_piscivorus . See the part under common names.
Don – Food for my noggin, as usual – Nice and DI.
Maybe you should go register “doninteresting.com”…. looks like its is available!
I bet a few folks here would visit…. !
Thanks Don.
Alan, Jason, and Co. … Damn Inconsistent!
Ronald, Read that Wiki carefully. They state that young Water Moccasins can resemble Copperheads, but if you view pictures of them side by side you can tell they are different snakes. The “common names” entry is an error. I quit trying to edit Wiki a long time ago. They should have said that the young Wms are sometimes mistaken for adult Copperheads.
16th of january.. seriously, you guys haven’t knocked out a post since then ? what the hell ?
guess where my browser will *never* be pointing again ? go on.. guess.
Maybe some sort of crazy crisis happened? Somebody died? I hope not… but damn, it’s a Damn Unfortunate that this site is dead, a wasted opportunity… Perhaps someone else should pick up where they left off?
Ahh the most special commentor Don does the extra extra mile for once. Not the usually DI stuff from his own experiences, but a throw back to a very recently exposed piece of sheer genius from WWII. Great job on the write up and damn it makes me wonder why you never submitted stuff off the links here or why they never picked you up (given you gave it a try.)
Nice, this site kind of lives again, at least once this year.
This is a must watch video ala WWII.
http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburner_/The_True_Story_of_the_Atomic_Bombs/1808/
He is getting a lot of hits, so you may have to hit reload a time or two.
DI!
As I was sitting here bored waiting for a new article, I felt my head heating up. This made me think about how much energy I was wasting with my mind thinking of nothing. Sooo…
The Brain – Social thought center of the body.
Did you know that the average person at rest uses around 100 watts of energy? Shine on old bright bulb. In the average human, the brain contributes only around 2 percent of the total weight. Most people like to think that this mass of specialized tissue as a tight packed, efficient device. In order to function, the human brain requires only the equivalent of approximately 20 watts of power. Pretty good considering most desktop computers use from 60 to 250 watts of power and full size laptops from 15 to 45 watts of power.
Why even that little incandescent light in your refrigerator (if it’s not working then it has an advantage over you. You still use 20 watts working or not and it’s using none. Of course this assumes that you’re not dead of course.) is using more energy than you are trying to decide what snack to get. So that means you’re either dumber than a light bulb or more efficient? The answers are wrong on the first and right on the second.
First off, that light bulb is only producing 10 percent light from all that energy, while the rest is wasted as heat. The brain only uses a fraction of its energy for thinking while the rest is for housekeeping. Even in deep mental thought the energy increase of the brain is miniscule. So like the light bulb, only a fraction of the energy is used for what most people consider the brain for, thought. Now for the second question: Remember the brain only comprises only around 2 percent of the body’s weight, yet those 20 watts it uses is actually 20 percent of the body’s energy. Otherwise, at rest the brain is burning up 20 watts of the 100 watts being used by the body during rest. The brain also demands 25 percent of the oxygen used by the body daily. What a hog.
So the brain is not so energy efficient. Well it has to be well designed and organized to monitor and control all those different body systems, right? Nope. Wrong again.
The bundle of nerves leading into the head is not color coded, strand separated, or properly mapped. It’s more like a group of over excited, birthday cake powered, high caffeine drink filled children dragging wires behind them. No rhyme or reason, just a chaotic jumble of crisscrossed, knotted wires, or in this case, nerve impulse pathways.
In some people a bright flash or bright light will induce a sneeze. Now how could light irritate your airways to create the tickle that causes the explosive, vapor filled (think snot) blast of air from the sinus cavities? Well the sneezing circuit is located in a section of the brain called the lateral medulla. If any damage happens to this mass of neuron-infested tissue you could loose the ability to sneeze, no matter how much pollen laced dust bunnies take residence in your nose.
So how does this relate to sneezing and light? Well it’s like this, an irritant lodges in your nose causing it to complain. A nerve signal phone call is sent via various nerves including the trigeminal nerve. Basically most of the information of what is going on with your face travels through the trigeminal nerve into the brainstem. So depending on how those cables fell, twisted, or intertwined, a signal indicating the need to dilated the pupil and close the eyelids before blindness sets in is a pretty intense pulse. The energy of that pulse could spill over onto neighboring fibers causing strange and unrelated involuntary actions to occur. Otherwise a simple sneeze. There are even reports of men sneezing without just cause during an organism, ew. All due to the poorly designed aspects of the human brainstem.
The mind also has its tricks in short term memory recall and long time storage. The brain uses patterns, not unlike a rhyme to help store or recall information. Otherwise creating a sequence allows the short or long time memory to recall events. This allows you to look up someone’s phone number or have someone tell you it, then dial it. Or to make the coffee by prepping the coffee maker with the filter, mix, and water. Memory sequence even allows something as complex as going to the market then returning home, or as simple as finding the loo (not to be confused with Lu, but in reference as the can, potty, water closet, crapper, john, nickie, pisser, the poke, and so forth) in the morning. This memory sequence normally repeats itself in the darker reaches of our minds, not noticed by us. When it’s something important the brain will recite the sequence, creating the memory. Like a toy train continuing rolling around in a circle the sequence becomes a memory. The longer it runs, the stronger the memory becomes.
This also has the downside of creating that most annoying and intellect damaging song verse repeating again and again within your mind. We all have suffered from those catchy jingles from commercials or TV shows, or just a verse from some song on the radio. Unlike the sequence of moving from place to place or repeated actions such as making coffee which is reinforced by the use of visual memory aids. Songs occupy a different section of the mind. Being more audio than visual, the repeated sequence of memory now becomes annoying. Also because songs and/or jingles are musical rhymes, the mind grasps them like a dog to a piece of steak. Refusing to relinquish its prize, growling and gnawing without regard to anything around it. Basically the only way to break the circle is to find something else to occupy the mind until the jingle is forgotten. Generally the best bet is to start humming another song with a catchy beat. Problem is, like that foul cur with its meat, the mind might just be hungry enough to start anew with that other song. Which could be more annoying and problematic than the original.
Don
First??? Sorta…Anyway, Thanks, Don, for an engaging use of my 20%. I think you should run with the “Don Interesting” idea. Long live DI!
Thank you for your efforts Don
THIRD!!!! Fantastic job Don; thanks for the effort!!
marc
Thanks for raining your right wing views upon our fun parade, DI indeed. Damn idiotic.
Don
Interesting article hombre.
You said “There are even reports of men sneezing without just cause during an organism”. U meant orgasm right?
And when u say “The energy of that pulse could spill over onto neighboring fibers causing strange and unrelated involuntary actions to occur”, do u mean that light causing people to sneeze is due to faulty wiring in the body?
Wrong Truth is it?
I found it quite interesting, and i learned a few things too.
You know, if you aren’t willing to listen to other points of view, you can never learn your wrong.
God forbid, you may be wrong from time to time.
I think i may be a little older than you, I can still remember when people thought for themselves, and utopia and reality were known to be differant things.
You are fortunate not to know the sacrifices that were made so you could be ‘blisfuly ignorant’.
I goes to show how effective our fathers were in protecting us from the harsh realities and potential horrors that surround us. I’ll referance you to the article at the top of the page for that one.
First I must apologize for the sloppy grammar. I pounded that bit out in just over an hour, but then posted it without proofreading or editing first. :’ *
Lazy, lazy, lazy.
Yah, the proper word is orgasm.
As far as signal confusion, well, electrical energy will produce a magnetic field during travel along a circuit. If the pulse is strong enough, and two circuits, wires, nerve conducts are running parallel for a long enough distance, it will create cross talk.
That is, a strong current flow will create a large magnetic field, that field will actually induce a current in a neighboring circuit. So a bright flash of light to the eyes will activate a strong pulse for pain. That signal could be strong enough to induce current in a parallel nerve that (as a signal for sneezing) at the moment has no activity or current flow. Thus this Ghost signal tells the brain that the body needs a sneeze at about the same time the pain signal is telling the brain to constrict the pupils and shut the eyelids.
Don
A magnetic field created by ur nerves that trigger a sneeze. How friggin awsome is that..
Id like to think of this as a self defence mechanism to protect our eyes rather than a flaw in our system. After all, its pretty impossible to sneeze without blinking ur eyes or moving ur head.
But are the electrical currents running in our nerves really powerful enuf to create a magnetic field so strong, it can induce another current? Cos if our nerves can pick up a mag-field and create currents that signal our body to do stuff, wont we go haywire everytime we get too close to a high voltage power cable?
Good work Don, glad to see someone who still contributes to this site.
Interesting post, marc. In fact, I’d say ‘damn interesting’.
Nothing irks people more than the truth.
Well, the video is a bit one-sided, but it does not contain any obviously wrong information, so I see no reason to call it idiotic.
It probably would have been better to post the link to the Hiroshima topic, though…
To Don, Marc et all who are continuing to keep this site alive with a drip feed of the stuff that makes DI what it is.
I salute you!
D
Geez Don again?! Nice. At least someone here is trying to keep the site unofficially updated. Thanks!
I swear if I had the time I know a topic or two that would be fun to paste my thoughts and research up here on too.
Well three things come into play.
1. In order to induce a current, one circuit must have a current and the other cannot. Plus the circuits must travel in the same direction and should be fairly close if not touching like two lanes of a roadway.
2. The magnetic field must be constant. If the field collapses your current quits.
3. To the electromagnetic spectrum, animals are big blobby bags of water. As we move through a magnetic field, the very aspect of our watery nature creates havoc in the magnetic flux. This causes ripples, voids, and pockets in the field. The very blood flowing in our veins and even natural chemical reactions within the body disrupt a field.
There are bodies of research trying to decide if it is biologically hazardous for people to work or live around High Voltage Wires, Cell Towers, Transformers, etc. This is because we are composites of various minerals, metals, and fluids, electromagnetic fields do interact and cause things to occur within the vary cells of our bodies.
Could they cause cancer or… So far not much evidence has been found to either prove or disprove the dangers of electromagnetism to organics.
Don
Well explained man. And about the High Voltage Wires, Cell Towers, Transformers, etc, causing cancer, there does seem to be something to it. There are such things as cancer clusters afterall. But if the power lines are causing it im pretty sure the power companies would do what they can to make sure such evidence does not make it to the eyes and ears of the general people. Business wise, it would be a bad call..
I have worked with things electrical for most of my 65 years. I have a degree in Electrical Engineering and have been ZAPPED a few times. Tends to make you more careful.
That is what you can consider to be a close encounter. Contact and lightning are potentially the most fatal to us mortals.
With all radiation in this spectrum, levels drop with the square of the distance from the source. That is why power poles are so tall, as well as to reduce leakage of current to the ground. In other words, the electrical field at a distance of 100 Ft from a power line is 1/10,000 the level at 1 Ft.
Next is high power RF waves. These are used in Microwave ovens (Totally safe if you don’t mess with the safety interlocks), Radar transceivers, Radio station broadcasts, TV Station broadcasts and some industrial thingies. The same law above applies. If you are working on or near one of these antennas when it is operating, you can die from the heating effects, or have instant cataracts at lower levels.
At longer distances and voltage and power levels, there is less danger. It all depends on power levels and focus. A wire in your house radiates energy 360° so power is diffused over a large volume. That reduces the power density at your body, um, say sitting in your easy chair, to very low levels.
Now, take the cell phone, which you place in intimate contact with your head and ear. I only use mine a few times a YEAR anyway, but many people are on theirs constantly all day long and may suffer problems now or in the future. It goes back to the distance problem above. The close proximity of the antenna with your head is not good. I want definitive studies done before I trust using my cellphone more than a couple times a day. I use hands free anyway, so it shouldn’t affect me anyway.
And NO, I have never worked for a power Co. And I do all of my own Electrical wiring.
Actually, working as I do for a utility company, if anyone was going to have a higher risk of cancer or other ailments due to proximity to power lines it would be the people who work on or near them for a living. I have yet to find a study showing these men and women have a higher than normal incidence of cancer that can be attributed to their work.
Keep in mind that many of these people are union members, and if the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers ever had good reason to believe that their members were being placed at risk for cancer, you can bet your ass we’d know about it.
If the second circuit were not aligned well with the first, the induction would be lessened but not eliminated.
Remember also that an induced current is necessarily in a direction such that its magnetic field opposes that of the inducing field (see Lenz’s Law). Not so, good sir. A constant magnetic field will induce zero current. Electric and magnetic fields must each change in order for one to induce the other. (Otherwise you could generate electricity simply by placing a permanent magnet next to a circuit.) True, but it only quits when the magnetic field strength reaches zero. While the field is collapsing, there will be some induction.
497
498
499
500th !! Woo-hoo!
500 & FIRST
So Coool
G
Yes but you must take in consideration the following items otherwise it is a moot point:
1. Distance – the more run exposed to the magnetic field the greater the induced current, but still extremely weak compared to what is normally channeled. Ever taken a transformer apart. Various windings of copper wire when unwound produce a huge mass of thin wire. All that just to produce a step-up, step-down, or 1 to 1 setup. Now think of how long the nerve runs in your body are. One strand of nerve fiber is nowhere near the distance of copper wire taken off a standard transformer winding. Thus the induced current from a magnetic field on a nerve fiber is fairly minuscule. Otherwise mere pebble’s ripple in the oceanic sized waves of your body’s natural current.
2. Strength of magnetic field – The larger the field the greater the potential. So considering the distance of most nerve fibers it would take a substantial pulsating magnetic field to even begin to produce anything noteworthy.
3. Crossover into an already busy circuit on a short run is very miniscule. Basically not worth noting. In this case the nerve that signals the need to sneeze is a dedicated circuit and as such used rarely. So if all the conditions are just so, the needed length of parallel running circuits, a signal of the right amplitude to create a strong magnetic field, and a run empty, primed, and ready.
Poor wording on my part, as I should have said, “The magnetic field must have a constant pulse.” A static or non-varying field has the potential to produce current, same as the petrol in the fuel tank has the potential to move the car. But like the petrol, certain conditions must be meant to utilize the energy behind the potential of a magnetic field.
Actually you do induce a current as you move the circuit through the magnetic field surrounding the magnet, but only until the wire or magnet comes to rest. Nitpicky I know, but as long as the circuit is moving through the magnetic flux, the potential is inducing a current flow. :)
Again poor wording on my part as it is the collapsing field that induces the current flow in the circuit. It is only when the field totally collapses and is not regenerated that the current ceases to flow. As long as you have a varying current your magnetic field will pulse. This pulsating field will induce a current flow in an adjoining circuit. But like the ripples in water, larger waves will always cancel out weaker smaller ones.
Don
True; but I was not disputing this part. I thin you were responding to bubaks, who asked:
“Cos if our nerves can pick up a mag-field and create currents that signal our body to do stuff, wont we go haywire everytime we get too close to a high voltage power cable?” I wondered whether to say “place a magnet next to a circuit, then observe things after the magnet is at rest”…implied nitpickiness, yay! Again, not quite–wave magnitudes add algebraically. The effect of the summing may be difficult to detect, depending on the detector of course, but it’s still there.
What’s stopping them?
If you’re referring to the authors of this site then the answer would be their lousy publisher giving them various levels of crap and roadblocks in getting that book out. The latest to hit the wall is a dopey cover to the book they’re not thrilled with which I get as I’ve seen it on Amazon. Still, given that there are I believe 4 regular writers here that were active of the few months before this place went into hibernation I’m surprised not one of them could have made some form of a new story. My only hope at this rate is that they’re stockpiling stories to have at a steady clip as a way to help sell the book a bit more as you damn well know the website will be cited to hell and back in that book.
I’ve been close enough to high voltage to make my body go haywire and do stuff. It’s called contact distance.
I sure hope the DI crew get back to work on the site soon. I check back every couple of days and i still see the same ol’ article up there. I’ve enjoyed this site but it needs some fresh articles.
Don,
Very nice articles, Thank You!
I have read and look foward reading your comments ,
I find them insightful and interesting.
Please countine to write and share.
I hope all is well with the site owners and writers.
High self perceptance, delusion? NO! I, for instance think highly of myself. I am aware of my many flaws and imperfections, but am also aware of my many qualities and values. I am quick minded. The positive side of this fact is that I get more work, learning, and recreation accomplished in a shorter amount of time. The negative side is my great impatience. I am very passionate. The positive side of this fact is my love, compassion, and affection towards others. The negative side of this fact is my anger and vendetta towards people who cause grief or pain to myself and the ones I love. I am very opinionated. ;) The positive side is of this fact is that knowledge is never intelligence without opinion. The negative side of this fact is the countless flaws in my views which I am constantly attempting to correct. I admit that I think highly of myself, but I also believe that is the only way to achieve anything great. Am I delusional? I think not. Be yourself, not what others say you should be. Believe in yourself, or nobody else will. And for the record, no man on earth has supernatural powers or psychic abilities. If you believe so, exclude yourself from the advice listed above and seek psyciatric assistance.
This site is kind of interesting: http://www.scienceray.com/
Old but worth a look: http://fravia.com/realicra/realicra.htm
Might help until Alan returns.
Not that this has anything to do with, well, anything and I realize that somewhere back in the blur of what passed for an education it was probably mentioned. Can anyone tell me why Europe and Asia are considered to be two distinct continents?
The simple answer is that there are no standard criteria which define what a continent is, so Europe and Asia are considered in some parts of the world as two distinct continents due to tradition.
And I was about to blame the Liberal Media and Nanci Pelosi. Thanks, I figured there was Tectonic Plate shifting fault line or at least a nearsighted cartographer to blame…..
The Tectonic Plate idea would make an amazing amount of sense, except that what we think of as Asia occupies parts of some four or five separate plates, one of which is shared by Europe. According to wikipedia, “The first distinction between continents was made by ancient Greek mariners who gave the names Europe and Asia to the lands on either side of the waterways of the Aegean Sea,” so you’re not far off about nearsighted cartographers.
Also, Asia became Asia and Europe, Europe before people understoon Tectonic Plate movement.. :)
I can certainly relate to their lack of knowledge on how to move Tectonic Plates, only I have had a wonderful and complete set from the Franklin Mint listed on EBAY for over a year now…XP
“As one might imagine, these issues present some problems when it comes to treatment. How does one convince a depressed person that “everything is all right” when her life really does suck?”
What does trading one opinion or perspective for another have to do with reality? All it seems to be doing is adopting a different ideal that is easier to live up to.
“…coping with a piece of reality that a “normal” person can’t handle…”
Are you joking? Prove me anything and I will cope with it.
I think this article throws ‘reality’ around too loosely and should have defined it as a socially constructed thing or as an objective reality to make it more … credible
Interesting… do you mean that in some parts of the World, Europe and Asia are considered to be the same continent?
Maybe not “in some parts of the wirld” but “by some geologists”.
This taken from wikipedia, “The seven-continent model is usually taught in Western Europe, Northern Europe, Central Europe, Southeastern Europe, China and most English-speaking countries. The six-continent combined-Eurasia model is preferred by the geographic community, Russia, Eastern Europe, and Japan. The six-continent combined-America model is taught in Latin America, and some parts of Europe including Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy. This model may be taught to include only the five inhabited continents (excluding Antarctica) – as depicted in the Olympic logo.”
Correct, the six-continent combined-Eurasia model is preferred by the geographic community, as stated above, but we can see that different parts of the world also teach different models than our own seven-continent view. I find it interesting to note also that because Africa and Asia meet at Suez there is a model which includes Afro-Eurasia as a single continent.
What do you know, I have learned something new and interesting…..That has not happened on this site since Don’s Monopoly post. Too bad the site’s hosts can not provide some minimal enlightenment.
Listen #42, you will take your comments section and be happy with it! Do you understand how hard it is to update a blog?
Etienne, your right, of course. I forget sometimes that there are only a few of us select inDUHviduals who can successfully string together a random jumble of letters into a sentence.
So, with that in mind, I pose another question….How hard is it to update a blog?
hahaha… thats funny.
42
Its very hard. You see, our conversation is merely child’s play compared to the art of blogging a status update for your dwindling devoted user base. The intelligence required for a properly formatted post is unspeakable, so unspeakable in fact that it shall be unspoken for the remainder of this hour. Viva la revolucion
hahaha…no that’s Dilbert!
Where are the new articles?
I love reading them. I miss reading them.
The book sounds fun, but when will they publish on the site again?
The stuff they they put up is awesome when it is posted.
Come on we love you, we miss you, one more song please!
hey, i dont know if this has already been mentioned, but i find this site: http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/ a good source for brain food
There are exceptions to the above analogy of self deception also.
There are even people who are highly successful and have everything going right for them and still they become delusional. This is the worst case scenario. How do you treat a person who is not quite depressed but still delusional?
Life can be like a delusion!!!
THE PHENOMENON CALLED LIFE THROUGH MY COLLECTION OF SHORT STORIES .. http://lifeshortstory.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/who-is-luckier/
Cracked.com is a very good site. Not as great as this though, but pretty entertaining.
Etienne, Saigon?
Great for you. I’ve also personally tried this optimism approach for a few years solid and have actually ended up in worse situations and less able to cope with situations because I was woefully unprepared simply because I approached the situations with hope and optimism instead of pessimism and skepticism. I still keep trying it as an approach because it is a very positive way to live but I repeatedly end off worse for it. Simply put, just because it has worked out for YOU doesn’t mean it WORKS FOR EVERYONE.
Thinking everything will go wrong DOES NOT mean it inevitably will. Unless of course you just sit back and let it. It actually enables you to prepare for the worst and come out ahead in the long run if you take intelligent steps to avoid it instead of, as the picture depicts, hiding your head in the sand hoping everything will just work out.
The annoying part is that you are NOT wrong for thinking the way you do. It obviously works for you. What’s irritating is that if I, for example, think that way I end up worse off and if I think pessimistically I end up better off. I’ve tested it time and time again for MYSELF. I don’t tell you that you should think negatively because it would clearly be to your detriment. But too often, and what may be the real problem here, is that people who’ve learned to think pessimistically because their own experiences have systematically shown it to be in THEIR best interest to do so are made to feel “abnormal” and “mal-adjusted” and causing themselves more harm than good by those who’s lives are improved by being hopeful and optimistic.
I’d be curious to see some studies done, if possible, on internal vs. external psychological pessimism/optimism. I wonder if successful self-described “optimists” are actually internally pessimists and successful self-described “pessimists” are internally optimists.
Ie, from the wording of your post I could read it as you really are a pessimist but you force yourself to be optimistic so you can have the belief and inspiration to achieve things. Whereas I am actually really an optimist that believes in myself (or over believes) and has inspiration to try new things and I force myself to be pessimistic to avoid the resultant over exposure to risk and dangerous situations that my internal optimism inevitably leads me into.
That’s the interesting thing about coins, there’s always a flip-side.
I strongly disagree with this!
The writer of this artical must percieve life through a negative outlook. My life has had it’s challenges just as anyone else’s but through the difficult times it’s given me more of an opportunity to appreciate qualities in life that we take for granted. You said “depressed individuals actually have more realistic perceptions of their own image”. I feel when being depressed you have lack of clarity of your situations and your self as you can’t think clear under that mind set. Being one to experience depression and to experience peace I feel that in my experience i can view my life much more clear when i’m at peace. I believe you make your own reality, I view my life through what is truth to me, i don’t try and avoid situations in some delusional way to stay happy, infact avoiding negative situations only makes things worse because then the problems never go away. What i’m trying to say is that my satisfaction for life is in no way delusional just because i’m happy. I’m happy because I know my self through the concious effort of observing what i do where i’m going who i am etc. So in now way am I attempting to avoid my lifes situations and hidding from them i’m saying I want to find the darkness in my life so I can figure out how i can overcome the obsticles. Many people that have the warmest hearts came from the darkest places because they know pain and so when they see someone else with a broken heart or in depression or what ever they have a great amount of compassion because they know what it feels like to have been there.
I don’t think the depressed individual has a more realistic view of them self then the individual that ponders certain questions such as who they are how they got to where there at, where they plan to go , where they came from etc……KNOW THEY SELF!
FIRST
oh, damn it.
lol
very clever, thought out article. It totally supports my views on society and reality. People are making out things to be better than they really are, for, whom who knew otherwise would drag themselves out to work practically every day of their life if they knew that really all they were end up doing would be to retire and die. People are slaving away every day of their lives for money they aren’t even going to end up spending. We have been brought up to desire material possessions. We’ve been brought up to believe that material possessions are going to make us happier and our lives better. So what do we do? Waste our lives doing something we dislike (well I’m sure you could be thinking of something you’d prefer to be doing than working) for the sake of money and then perhaps a few hours of joy afterwards. Really it doesn’t even out. And the really depressing thing about this is that society has been set up in such a way that this pattern is endeavored to be followed and there’s nothing we really can do about it. The only way of escape seems to be delusion. Which is what this article is pretty much saying.
It just makes me kinda frustrated at myself as I’ve already blown my chance of that deluded reality. I see things exactly how they are, hence what i’ve said before. I can’t seem to escape this negative way of thinking. So, out to all those kids that think they’re going to grow up to become sports stars, own mansions basically party life away, good on you.
Live that musical whilst you can.
I wish i could.
its kinda sad that people are advertising other website here, but DI has been so quiet for so long allready.. so here you go.
http://www.thechive.com
this has nothing to do with interesting articles whatsoever..
its just full of funny/awsome pictures.
PS: i still hoping that DI will start kicking back into action!
Wow, lots of pseudo intellectuals in the comments all of a sudden, who seem to have the impression that they know what they’re talking about.
As opposed to you, who leaves no doubt that you don’t.
There are many types of minds on this planet, intellectual or otherwise. One of the others is the “Little Mind.” A “Little Mind” will, when it has noting of import to say (which is pretty much all of the time), attack others that are perceived as having a larger intellect, usually in a manner that attempts to degrade or detract, so that the “Little Mind” can assuage it’s feelings of inferiority.
Most posts here bring some food for thought or at least provide information, humor, or posit a question. I find it quite ironic that you would dub yourself the enforcer of providence. Maybe you should consider your future incarnation(s) before you set out to belittle others.
Whatever makes you feel better 42.
nothing* of importance*
its* feelings (note that it’s is the contraction of it and is)
You see, you act mentally superior, but your grammatical errors betray your facade. KarmaPolice was quite right about the pseudo-intellectuals here; can we all just act normal and stop using vocabulary words that most regular people will have to look up?
As for your spiel about “future incarnation(s),” if you are indeed speaking about the belief of reincarnation, karma, and the like, how dare you be so ignorant as to believe that anyone you are speaking to over the internet must also practice this belief? Way to make coming to this website even more depressing.
Well said Feretro, I agree completely.
On a side not, ‘KarmaPolice’ is actually a Radiohead song. I don’t actively try to enforce “karma” on everything I come across.. by the same token 42, I bet you aren’t the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything in it.
Judging by the amount of recent comments across the site, I would like the suggest this is becoming the site that refused to die. LOL
Karma, my apologies. I was merely pointing out the irony of your user name. I did not know your tag was a nod to a band. You seem to be very adept at attacking the other commentators on this site without providing any intellectual content yourself. To wit and I quote;
Might I suggest that instead of baiting trolls, belittling the mentally challenged, or lamenting the lack of intellectual content, you could try to contribute to the enlightenment of others. Or at least, ask an intelligent question.
BTW- While I have been known to crack open a tome by the late Douglas Adams, 42 is just my age. I have no illusions of omnipotence. Just a general idea of where my towel is…..
To Coffin (or are you referring to the Peruvian Thrash Metal band),
From your posts, I would have thought that you were capable of grasping the concept of irony. You attack me for a grammatical error (that you miss quoted) and for “using vocabulary words that most regular people will have to look up” and yet you occasionally post in Spanish or reference genre specific published works, both requiring the average reader here to Google. So pardon me for potentially coercing someone in to learning words, that after all, are in the dictionary and in common use.
Also, I did not promote any religious dogma or philosophy, I merely made an association to make a point.
TL;DR
I gotta agree with karmapolice on the pseudo intellectuals with their articles..
Once the site comes alive again this problem will be solved.
You got that right Mr Stud. Never Give Up! Never Surrender!
You know, I don’t see why the authors of this site can’t be a little bit more open about why they’re refusing to update the site.
It’s not hard guys, just a little paragraph… or two. Don’t you think your loyal readers deserve some sort of explanation?
Yeah, itistoday, it’s almost like they’re keeping us in the dark on purpose. We know they read these comments too, or at least they did a few hundred comments ago.
For those of us who have been hitting refresh on this site for 6 months now, a single update telling us whats going on with our favourite site wouldn’t be too much to ask
Yea this is getting kinda ridiculous. Ive read all the older articles and some of em twice, and some three times allready! Does anyone know where DI is based? Maybe something happened and thats why there are no updates. I sure hope nobody died or anything like that…
Hey everybody,
On September 6th 2005, Alan Bellows posted the first article on this website and it mentions the Big Kaboom (Big Bang). The arguments in the comments are very thought provoking and worth a read. For those of us that are really looking for brain food and are getting tired of waiting for DI to come back to action, i recommend revisiting the first article and if u like, share your own views on the topic. Here is a short cut to the first post.
https://www.damninteresting.com/?m=200509&paged=5
When there are new comments on an older article, most people dont read it because they are to busy with the new one. You see, even if DI does not post any new articles for a long time to come, this website wont really die off because one of the best parts of DI are the discussions and arguments in the comments section. And as long as you and me are here feeding the comments, DamnInteresting.com will never run dry.. :)
PS: The article may be years old, but the latest comment was posted in Feb 09′ by ValiantDefender. And its a pretty good one at that.
You should probably get an RSS reader and add the feed. Its a lot easier that way.
FIRST !!!!!
Whoohoooo……. Aawww Shucks Missed It
When are you going to quit fooling around with your new book, and start working on materials for a new one, all the articles have been read and its getting old seeing how long previous articles are being left up front, i used to enjoy browsing your interesting materials
OK you folks, at least some of us have tried to help out with “DI” or at least “I” comments here.
The rest are just using this as their dumping ground for everything that gets deleted from comments they make on other sites.
Post some interesting things. Perhaps facts that we might not know. I wish that I could post photos here. We have some good close ups of Whooping Cranes at ANWR in TX. That should be at least an “I” for some folks. Also other birds and wildlife photos.
Go here for Pix: http://www.cabinwood.blogspot.com
If you like them, mention DI in your comments.
Has anyone heard any word on a new update? or is the site dead?
Its not dead. Its just in a coma.
Dear KarmaPolice, 42, and Feretro: let’s not forget the old addage of an internet argument’s similarity to the Special Olympics: “Even if you win, you’re still… “
Now this was really DI:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/17-05/ff_guidestones?currentPage=1
American Stonehenge? There is another near Hunt TX, but not as spooky as this one.
You’re too late, that’s already DI ;-)
https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=571
Interesting … just found if you change the url so it’s one or two numbers higher than an existing article, you can discover what looks to be unpublished articles.
Such as: https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=972
I found three more in various states of completion with only a few tries.
Seems there is work in progress after all.
Looking forward to the time they are finally published.
Skydive, thats so cool. thanks man hahahaha. How the heck did u find that out?
I worked on that a long time ago … I was waiting to see a glimmer of hope of it getting published, then give it one last polish. Don’t judge me on an unpolished draft!
Hey, somebody DOES read this ;-)
Yes, I noticed those articles are not finished yet. some don’t have pictures yet, and one seems to be a very rough draft. Still pretty good reads and a glimmer of hope for the eventual revival of this site.
BTW, any news on the book? Amazon still hasn’t got a release date. I was going to place an order there soon and would delay that if a release is imminent.
Mirage_GSM
The history angle was really interesting on the Stonehenge article. Read the whole thing. Still, no-one knows for sure who financed and designed the thing.
Allan, good to hear from you. Waiting…
I’m not Allan, nor am I Alan. Geez.
Last I heard the book needs to be in stores on 1-Jul-09, because a couple of different chains (B&N and Borders) are having some promotions, and the book will be part of it. Not sure though since we haven’t even seen a publisher’s copy yet … hoping to any day now.
Alas, if we keep calling attention to these, they may restrict them, but here’s one written last month….
https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=978
Good find, Skydive!
Jason – with so many articles “close” to completion, why don’t you guys allow them to be published? Seems crazy to me – you guys could have filled this void with these….
If I counted correctly, there would have been enough for 1 a month since this article was re-published….
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/07/12/nightmare-of-sleep-p.html
Here is an interesting article.
U-530’s experience made me think of it. I have suffered this off and on for years. It is quite terrifying specially being woke from a nightmare. I thought there was something wrong with me when it happened. I thought I might actually be dead or somehow injured.
zombie #566
Now that was DI. Thanks.
Because Alan is the only person who gets to upload articles onto the main page. It’s his name on the site, so he has that responsibility.
Yup perhaps only he can upload, but if these are finished works or near it, it’s a shame they’re locked away all this time with the site on a giant sit and spin. This place has to be losing a lot of readership waiting for an update. I still check in every week or two but at some point I don’t think it will last forever for me or most the left remaining which is so sad.
Huh found another one. War of the Worlds: The Other Broadcasts — https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=976 I tried the title in search and it didn’t come up so this could be new.
Sorry, got curious after reading that great bit on the N1 Rocket and the Killdozer (I remember that incident on tv.)
Seems this place has a problem with a spam filter over too many links so I apologize for the essentially double posting here if the other makes it out of the filter later on. I found quite a few unpublished articles. Just add in the website/?p=### to try these out.
Unfortunatel Sex Life of Bananas ?p=971 and Douglas Mawson goes for a walk ?p=968
Cotard Syndrome ?p=967 Project Jennifer ?p=963 The Demon Virus ?p=958 The Shadow Man ?p=957 Omega Point ?p=947 Running for your Life ?p=933 The Destruction of Ripple Rock ?p=931 The New York Paris Race of 1908 ?p=918 Power Ball: The Next Big Thing in Environmental Pollution ?p=915
I checked present to ID #900 here, can’t do them all as that would take forever and *hehe* I’m at work, the same place I discovered this site a few years back when it was fresh off the presses. Mind you as they said, they’re unpublished and unrefined too so if the writing isn’t as kosher as you like they’re blameless.
I hope no one here has issue with this, but this place has been dormant so long and these are fun reads. I knew of the number rotation bit for awhile but didn’t do anything, but after seeing the other guy expose it and Jason and Richard not seeming to take issue with it I hope it’s alright. Oh and Richard I see a lot of yours are in the links I posted and I like what you had going there, shame it wasn’t made live.
Hey J.K. none of the articles you cite are there… have they been restricted?
I had an original post that had the actual http… address but there were enough it blocked it for a spam filter this site has.
I just clicked this one: https://www.damninteresting.com/?p=968 …and it worked. Just copy the address and replace the numbers I put in #572
Mawson?…i’ll just call him Mawesome
alright guys, i put in some work, and i’ve found out that there are no unpublished stories from p=400 to 499…so that takes care of 100 potentials…i know i know, its disappointing i don’t actually have an article to share, but i’ve saved you the trouble from wasting your time….
trouble of*
Thank you David Lewis!
Gentlemen, if I may make a modest request, please let those “hidden” articles remain hidden. Many of them are drafts, and are nowhere near ready for publication (others were withdrawn by the author, or even deemed Insufficiently Interesting for this site). Reading them now is like reading a shooting script for a movie instead of seeing the movie as released. It’s also a bit unfair. I could easily post my articles on my own blog (and I’m sure the other authors can do likewise) without having to deal with the Editorial Tag Team that we have here, but I would much rather have the cachet that comes from being published here, knowing that my writing has been improved by the editorial process. Please wait for them to be officially published.
You won’t have to wait long.
While I agree that reading unfinished articles is less of an experience (and a less polished product) than consuming them in their fully completed form; I suspect that the general feeing is that reading something unfinished is still better than reading… well…. nothing for the last 5 months. It’s the old case of better to eat something unripe than starve.
If nothing else, the discovery of recent, unfinished articles in embyro, provides some hope that the site hasn’t been totally abandoned, and may actually start putting out some material sometime in the forseeable future. I think we need that sort of hope at a time like this – in the inexplicable absence of a simple message along the lines of “Sorry about the lack of updates, we haven’t abandoned the site, we’ve just had to deal with “X” situation, and things will resume sometime soon”
Richard,
Thanks for posting. I’ve enjoyed your articles and those of other authors. Keep ’em coming!
I registered just to let you know I too am missing a daily dose of DI. I hope Alan starts updating soon.
Now that is D.I. can we quote you on this?
Try this for DI:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195215/Stunning-pictures-hole-clouds-astronauts-witness-volcano-eruption-International-Space-Station.html
I was just thinking, when the next article is *finally* posted, that the “FIRST” will be truly epic. :P
Reviews are coming in for the DI Book: http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Hand-Syndrome-Alan-Bellows/product-reviews/0761152253/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_summary?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending
The truly interesting thing happening here is that there is still, still, *STILL* some interest amongst the regular suspects. At least they’re still complaining…
To keep the interest up, here’s the mandatory pie joke:
http://www.weebls-stuff.com/wab/Rally/
It’s ludicrously long reply threads like this that make me think this site could really use a forum.
When is the next article coming… O.O
Alan, congrats on publishing the book. Got it. Love the cover.
But what the hell is going on with the site? Now that the book is out, you could presumably see traffic increase. But to what? Months old content? Dude.
Grats on the book now hand the site to someone that can manage it for you
Book is out?? Awesome :)
That means the site will be updated VERY SOON, right? right??
Thank you Jason! Got my eye on the mail box!
Ya know folks, the economy crash has hit everyone hard. That would probably include Alan et all. I think patience and gratitude are two things we can give Damned Interesting, concidering that Alan gave us an ad free super cool web site and followed up with a book , that many begged for, on a shoestring of donations. He does have a “real” job you know, that he supports his family with.
I for one am going to show my support, by purchaseing as many copies as I can afford for Holidays and birthday presents.
And to you, Dear Don, thanks for the stories. I do hope that someday You will write a book about your life experiances. That would be another fascinating read indeed!
While I of course agree with you Tink, I must say that the effort required for him to post a message on this site simply saying that another article won’t come for however long would cost him little to no effort, or for him to at least in form us of what is happening to this site. Because by the state of it I’d say it’s dead, though I hope otherwise.
Please quit hamming on about the site being dead. It is not dead, just a wee bit neglected. Those of us who truely love DI.com, will hold down the fort and be here when Alan and Co. is able to began anew.
Now, I am not sure, but I think there are 350+ articles posted on the site all ready. That is close to a years worth of daily reading. If you want to see what a dead site looks like go to anomalies.com. It has some interesting stories, lots of weird cool pictures and a few opines. But it has not been updated in at least two years. There is no comment section, and emails go unanswered. Sad , cause it was pretty interesting too. Check out the pages on Michael Jackson, and Disney.
Meanwhile, back here at the ranch, check out the article on meme’s (cant remember the #) and stop thinking of DI as DOA.
P.S. Happy Independance Day USA. Thank you, to all who have served to make our freedoms , including that of speaking our minds here, possible.
There hasn’t been an official update in half a year, there hasn’t been a new article in even longer. They haven’t even told us why they haven’t updated. This site couldn’t be any deader. Just because a few of us are still posting comments doesn’t mean the site is alive.
Karma, I quite agree. This is the first time that I have checked this site in two months. I don’t know when I will bother to come back. It just seems like they are trying to drive book sales by not posting new content here, which is both logical and their right, and may, in fact, be required by the book publisher. It just seems to me that this site could be a free book promotion bonanza. But, what do I know…
Jason or Allan should hop on either the daily show or the colbert report — i’m sure they would make for a hell of an interview with the crazy articles this site reports on.
Every time I come here, I think to myself “This could be the time!” And every time, my hopes are dashed, almost to the point at which I can’t convince myself that they’re actually doing something.
Polpolion:
I agree. I also suspect that the drafts that readers found are not upcoming releases but are actually drafts that were considered for publication but rejected.
Finally, I have always imagined that the photograph for this pages – not the article’s content – is meant to be the real message. In essence, we are being told to kiss it.
If I am correct, I won’t blame the staff of DI, especially in regard to the previously-promised book. Does anyone actually think that Internet readers who expect everything for free will dash out to buy a copy?
If that happens, I will gladly admit my mistake, immediately after I recover from the ensuing series of cardiac arrests.
I wrote the Killdozer after the book was started … it wasn’t rejected. As for why my work was shunned … I can’t really say. Nevertheless, I too hope one day SOON it will be published.
600th!! Has to be a new record on this site!
So Jason, if there is work in the pipeline, how about a simple “official” update to that effect. I’m not alone in thinking an update is more than overdue.
New links will draw traffic, and that in turn will sell books. That is the point of the book, is it not?
There was supposed to be an update last week, but it suffered the same ailment as everything else.
Admittedly, I haven’t much say in getting anything up, and there’s not a lot I can do. I’m trying to make sure Alan has any help he needs, and as soon as he’s ready I’ll be there to aid in getting something posted.
Alan is thinking to tweak the site layout to help re-ignite his enthusiasm, and our publisher is trying to coax something new to help promote the book, so hopefully between all these factors something should happen. I just can’t say when … sorry.
If we do get anything up, I have a list of topics semi-researched so we could have a good amount of content for a while, but I can’t talk myself into writing any of them until the one that is done gets posted, ya know?
I got the “Damn Interesting” Book in the mail last week, and it’s Damn Interesting how the editors toned down the classic Bellows writing style. The typical style we are used to is too casual for them, I guess. I think most DI enthusiasts will find small changes and added detail in the classic stories makes the book worthwhile. The book is also a lot more extensive than the cover art might suggest. It is of substantial length, and will provide me with many hours of damn interesting reading.
Good work, Guys!
Thanks!
I find it enormously funny that you mention the cover-art … too lengthy a tale to tell here, but suffice it to say I feel the same.
Damn.
I didn’t know the book was available.
Where do I buy it?
You can find it at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Alien-Hand-Syndrome-Alan-Bellows/dp/0761152253/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
I wonder why the publishers – out of all the DI stories – chose to focus on the Alien Hand?
Obfuscatory Transparency:
Thanks for the link. I ordered the book immediately.
I wonder how many of the compulsive posters for this site have not yet bought the book?
Wow nice and someone edited those links short of I think the killdozer from my post, thanks (seriously, not sarcasm.) I loved this site and would like to again so I’m happy to see at least one of the Bellows being up front and posting honestly here about things. Good that the damn book is out, that’s for sure, and I’ll go and get it local or online. Also I fear the lack of drive to update here again, but money talked and publisher threats hopefully carry weight because they want here alive again too, as does Jason it appears at least to get the Killdozer up on the front page. I remember when that one went down some years ago, was amazing and amazingly nasty.
Thanks for the update Jason. I do appreicate it. Good luck with the new content!
My book arrived today. Total time: less than two days.
The real cover is far more effective than what one sees on a computer screen. The hand is slightly raised so that it has a 3-D effect that I have never seen on any other book.
Has it occurred to anyone else that Alan Bellows might be concerned about the book’s sales? The chance exists that he invested quite a bit of his own money. Even if he didn’t, if the sales are what the readers of this site predicted, it can cause concern and depression.
If you are a regular patron of this site and haven’t bought the book yet, get with it. Part with a very little bit of cash, and keep Damn Interesting alive.
I hope not. That would be a clear violation of Yog’s Law: “Money flows toward the Wirter.” (http://www.sff.net/people/yog/). The reason writers should be paid is so that they can afford to eat, and thus, continue to write.
The site costs money, but we’ve had quite a few donations that have really offset that cost for us, and kept it from being too expensive.
We did get paid for the book, and I think pretty well. We split that up between all the contributors, so it’s not huge for anyone.
BTW, we have books en route for everyone who pre-ordered. It takes a while to get signatures for writers around the globe …
~Jas
Jason:
Thanks for the word and for being honest. Both are a relief.
Still, I urge everyone to buy a book if he/she has not done so yet.
Amazon here I come :)
Foxbat…….and thats all i’m gonna say ;)
Fantastic news really right down to those looking to get those signed copies. I was planning on hitting up Borders this weekend as they have this fun and more rare anything you buy is 25% off coupons so I’ll keep an eye out. Otherwise, Amazon is tempting me. They never let me down. I ordered an Indiana Jones book a good 2 weeks ago, and it said it wouldn’t show until July 5-7, but it came on the 3rd just a couple days later on their free ship deal.
Forgot to ask reading a comment above. How many contributors are there backing this site anyway? Does it mean just the writers, or are their shadow researchers too that help dig up tasty nuggets of information to be exploited and explored? I remember a time ago a good year or two back I was starting to mock up something for here but life and a marriage got in the way of that. ;)
Picked it up at Borders a few moments ago, they had a good stack of at least 6 of them in the Reference/Trivia section, and yah that cover does jump out at you with the 3D pressing on the big ol’ hand of uncontrollable doom there.
Spam deleted
I got my book in the mail a few days ago. I just had knee surgery yesterday so this book will be of great help in the nigh countless hours of doing nothing surely to ensue.
And now I raise a toast with my pain meds… Thank you DI. I hope everything was worth it.
Sweeet! Now I know the book is out, I’ll definitely be buying it. Not sure if Borders NZ will have it yet (we are pretty much the armpit of the world when it comes to releases of … well anything), but failing that, there’s always Amazon – my regular source of all things that local retailers either haven’t heard of or just can’t be arsed carrying.
haven’t check out the rest of the comments yet, but I think the flaw with a lot of depressive people is having a fatalistic or deterministic view in addition to a realistic one. a lot of things about the world are terrifying but we have free will and nothing requires us to react a certain way.
LAST!
You see? My faith that Damn Isteresting would come back was realistic!
Hey cyber rodent, be sure to tell me if you find it at a particular store in NZ cause I’m looking to pick up a copy too but can’t be bothered with amazon.
Yayyyyyyyy!
Apparently, ignorance is bliss
Having read the new articles and though absolutly delighted to see them; I got bored late last night, and needing a DI! fix, read all 628 comments posted here. Yall cracked me up, to whit:
LMAO. A toast to you, nonsequitur, for the most clever and appropiate insult I have heard in many a year…. To engage in a battle of wits with those so woefuly unarmed is really kinda sad…But funny as hell, nonetheless. :P
There seemed to be a disportionate number of folks in these 628 comments who were suffering from a disorder, known as OpticalRectalitis. This is a condition of the nerves in the optical stem being entangled with those of the rectum somewhere near the cerebal cortex. It causes the symptomology of having a shitty outlook on just about everything.
I woke the cat LOL at this.Thank you for making me wipe laughter spewed coffee off the screen! Priceless.
Here is a link for you to enjoy, too. With the same warning ” not for those who are theistic, nor for the humor-impaired” http://www.iamanatheist.com/index.html
I adore your comments and stories, even the sci-fi ones about cloned toes that make no sense to me. This was fascinating. Thank you!
Sure, optimism is normal and necessary. Beyond this, this article is totally bunk.
An anorexic who thinks she’s ugly because she’s too fat when she’s really ugly because she’s too thin, is not “more in touch with reality”.
A paranoid who believes that everyone thinks he’s crazy does not have “special insight”.
An obsessive-compulsive who believes they have to wash their hands three times in a row and turn the light switch on and off three times is not acting rationally.
I would imagine that it’s natural selection that has given us this delusional motivation – if the human race wasn’t so optimistic then not a great deal would happen and we would probably die out one way or another.
Also I think it’s a good thing if we are over-estimating our selves and the outcome of things – I personally would rather be completely insane but happy than completely aware than miserable.
I think that anyone suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder would agree with your exposition. PTSD sufferers are depressed by factual events that most skeptics would agree are legitimate grounds for depression. Often reality is depressing.
this is fucked up i lol-ed
i think that no matter what the mental illness, or being mentally unstable, retarded people should be kept out of ordinary life, in fact, i think that the entire world should put these ‘retards’ in camps for them to be forced to work for nothing, as punishment for existing. we normal beings should be waited on hand and foot for simply being ‘normal’. these retards are the very bottom of the mental food chain, with us at the very top. The ‘retard’ factior should be wiped off the face of the earth, and that we should regain our positions of superiority.
Sam, you say “we” as though you were one of the superior variety. I strongly recommend that you improve your spelling and grammar, especially capitalization habits, if you wish to be spared. One would almost think that your Shift key was broken, but for the “:” and the “)” in your “name,” both of which symbols require said key. One might think that your Shift key had broken after you made your name, but your name is not capitalized. Your grammar is terrible, as is your spelling of the word “factor,” and you cannot expect to put inferior specimens of humanity into “retard camps” without committing yourself along with them.
I think we should all try to be like Radiatidon, who writes a lot of intelligent and interesting things without being rude or stupid.
please do not feed the trolls
Brilliant article.
I came across this by searching for “Total Perspective Vortex” – a concept from Hitchhiker’s that I’ve always been particularly fond of. I’ve always been looking for an explanation of “mental disorder” that was more inclusive than “they’re just loony” and this article provides some amazing insight – insight that helps me understand a little bit more of myself, as well.
Great stuff Christopher – keep up the great posts.
Are you kidding? Ignorance abounds. When somebody has mental problems, handwashing or paranoria, they are miserable.
Agree, we can’t pretend it’s not suffering involved. Although the labeling of mental illness is out of hand considering how few diagnostic methods we have, appearantly no one is normal any more, we all have a ‘disorder’.
An interesting article….too bad damn interesting has sort of died out… if you are interested in a similar blog…check out : http://www.thinkaboutthis.info a wide range of topics from philosophy to history to religion….up and coming blog with insiteful posts!
damn interesting indeed. i read most of the posts and was amazed of how intellectual you guys comment/debate/discuss. kudos to the likes of willy, to christopher putnam for the articles and alan bellows for the site. my interest in reading and studying is revived! my college entrance exams are coming up, and i needed a breather. this site is just sooooo..refrehing. lol.
i’ll strive to be as smart as you guys >:]
hope you guys will continue posting articels in this site. THANKS!
Granted this article points out some interesting facts about humans, but that doesn’t mean that actively following such behavior is positive for society. Moreover, delusional thought systems may lead some to better lives, but they also lead others to terrible things like the mass-murder shootings committed by James Holmes and Adam Lanza.
I would argue against delusion and optimism being useful for humankind at this point in civilization. In fact, I think much of the current unhappiness in America, as well as serious mental illnesses, is due to the collective delusional belief enforced by Disney, Hollywood and the other media that we can and should all be rich, beautiful, “successful”, and famous.
One modern alternative for finding happiness without delusion is Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy (REBT), invented by the famous psychologist Albert Ellis. His therapy is based on acceptance of the world, ourselves, and focusing on what we can do and what we can change.
For example if you are in a bad job or bad relationship:
1. acceptance of the situation: this job sucks
2. validation of your emotions: the fact that it sucks depresses me, depletes my energy, makes me angry, makes me feel hopeless, etc.
3. Now that you have addressed your emotions, which is a necessary step, time to focus on what you can do to change the situation. In some cases leaving your job or partner is the only viable alternative.
Above all, stop saying things like “my life *should* be better” or “that person *should* not have cut me in line”, or “I *must* be richer”, or “the government *should* do a better job at X”. This is what Ellis humourously called “musturbation”. Such patterns of thought do you no good. This is not to say that these things will not upset you, but “shoulding” just leads to a cycle of unhappiness, anger, and hopelessness.
See wikipedia for more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Ellis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_Emotive_Behavior_Therapy
You can also read his many books such as
“The Myth of Self-Esteem”.
“How to Stubbornly Refuse to Make Yourself Miserable About Anything: Yes, Anything”
Above all, it would probably serve all of us well to stop following half-baked advice from TV sound-bites and self-help snippets from talking heads, magazines, the 10 minute guide to XYZ etc, and this article!
It’s odd to cope with pessimistic thoughts of reality, since there is no true answer as to whether it’s all going fairly okay, or terrible, since it’s both at the same time. I think I hold two opinions of the matter, which are clearly different, yet doesnt conflict. One part of me sees the fantastical fuckup that is humanity and thinks ‘you know, everything points to shit, and getting shittier, and even if we try, we can’t possible ward of all that incoming shit’, and the other is still blissfully biased by the comfort of my first world country and dismissing all other notes, along with a more down-to-earth of ‘everything has always been on the shaky grounds with lots of shit going on. If everythings’ base state of being is shit, then it should be converted to ‘normal’, and normal is fine, really. No use for panicking or being worried’.
Yeah, I can recommend installing an inner chill center. If you want both the pessimistic view of humanity, the chill factor, and laughter, just seek out George Carlin. He should be able to balance out your worldview
Dear Chris,
You comment is in fact negative, a realistic one would have merely reported the chance of raining without much subjective judgement.
What makes someone depressed is the overall idea based on actual facts that the subject comes to realize about the world, himself and what is around him in terms of opportunities and ability to influence his own future. This ideas are true but dysfunctional for himself and the way he interacts in social groups, leading to being marginalized and eventually seen as mentally ill.
Astounding. I have not seen this column since 2007, and I still recall most of it. Maybe.